I read “The New IPA” by Scott Janish and now I’m paralyzed with indecision!

[Horseflesh]

If you don’t know the book, the author summarizes a lot of research on how to get hop flavor and aroma into beer. He doesn’t say, “you should do it this way.” The tone is more like, “here is data you should consider.”

The last part of the book is loaded with details from pro brewers, and is great if you do want some specific advice—though of course, the brewers cited don’t all agree with one another.

I found the book super interesting, but there are so many new ideas presented that I can’t decide which to try first. A hop-fruity pale ale was always my go-to when I wasn’t sure what to brew, but every part of my hop technique is now in doubt!

If anyone has tried some ideas from the book... have you found anything that worked for you?

 

[vtipsy]

The more you know, the more you realize you don't know. Keep play around with things, that's half the fun of brewing right?

I want to try using loads of old cheesy hops to make fruity flavors.

 

[thehaze]

I agree completely with vtipsy. Experimenting ( as well as drinking*/trying as many examples from each style ) as much as you can, will help you understand each style of beer, define and adjust your taste and slowly lead you towards the beer you like to drink and brew. I am sure that whatever method/advice you will follow, the beer will turn out great. General advice can assist you in brewing good beer, but from there is all you. So, don't be afraid and get brewing.

 

[jturman35]

For me it ain’t so much about trying to brew new beers but these ain’t exactly cheap to brew, lol!

 

[Horseflesh]

A real NEIPA is sure not cheap, but the material in the book applies even if you use a lesser amount of hops.

I've never actually made any kind of proper IPA, by the numbers I am doing pale ales.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

A real NEIPA is sure not cheap, but the material in the book applies even if you use a lesser amount of hops.

I've never actually made any kind of proper IPA, by the numbers I am doing pale ales.

I'm a new brewer and most advice Ive seen is either from this HBT forum or Janish's book. Ive now brewed 5 beers total, all NEIPAs. Im sticking with this style as I dial in my processes prior to trying anything radical. If you are wanting to brew a NEIPA style beer, here's what I would suggest as a beginning point as its worked well for me with all of my beers being as I would described as "good" in addition to the fact that my wife has liked them too!

Grain Bill: Ive stuck with 65% base malts (variations of 2 row, marries otter, golden promise) and 35% "other" with flaked oats, white wheat, flaked barley and 3-5% of that 35% being honey malt. Sticking with these percentages will get you in the neighborhood of a good grain bill for a NEIPA I think.

Hops: While Ive seen peeps on here doing ~a full pound of hops total, Ive started with 12.5oz of hops total and this has yielded good results. Typically, Ive done .5oz first wort hops, 1.5oz of hops at 5min boil, 4.5oz of hops in whirlpool, and two dry hop charges at 3oz each. So in summary, this is 6.5oz of hops on hot side and 6oz on cold side. Ive also split my hop additions evenly among three different hops throughout. For example, my first NEIPA, I used 0.5oz warrior as first wort hops, 0.5oz each citra/mosaic/galaxy for 5 min boil and two whirlpool charges of 1.5oz (0.5oz each hop). Then for dry hop, I used 1oz each for first and second dry hop charges.

I think this would be a good starting point as Ive found it successful myself and you can then manipulate on subsequent batches. either by increasing the % of total hops to dry hopping and lowering on hot side OR simply going above 12.5oz total hops too. But I think a 12.5oz total hop dosage might be a good place to start for a finished 5gallon batch and you can always adjust according to your taste afterwards. Overall Ive taken the stance of building these beers with a more balanced approach to hot side and cold side hops as I personally think theres too much emphasis on lowering as much IBUs as possible but I personally think that some bitterness helps bring out the juiciness of these types of beers similar to sweet and sour combos with food.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I found the book super interesting, but there are so many new ideas presented that I can’t decide which to try first. A hop-fruity pale ale was always my go-to when I wasn’t sure what to brew, but every part of my hop technique is now in doubt!

It really is an interesting book. I found that I would read 4 pages before bed, and always came up with 5 new things I wanted to try! That said, I know that I have brewed some pretty darn good hoppy beers in the past, so there is no reason to completely abandon my old processes.

I don't brew a ton of NEIPAs, but Pale Ales and IPAs are core in my rotation. In my latest NEIPA I included Centennial in the mix because it showed up on a lot of lists in Scott's book. To try out different hopping techniques, I did no hops until a 2 oz addition of Centennial at 10 mins, then 6 oz in a whirlpool and 6 oz in a dry hop (mix of Mosaic, Citra and Centennial...with 2 oz Mosaic and 1 oz Citra in my second dry hop). I have not quite figured out how much I like that beer, but it is only 9 days in the keg.

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

If you don’t know the book, the author summarizes a lot of research on how to get hop flavor and aroma into beer. He doesn’t say, “you should do it this way.” The tone is more like, “here is data you should consider.”

The last part of the book is loaded with details from pro brewers, and is great if you do want some specific advice—though of course, the brewers cited don’t all agree with one another.

I found the book super interesting, but there are so many new ideas presented that I can’t decide which to try first. A hop-fruity pale ale was always my go-to when I wasn’t sure what to brew, but every part of my hop technique is now in doubt!

If anyone has tried some ideas from the book... have you found anything that worked for you?

purchased!

 

[Jag75]

I'm gonna order this as well .

 

[Horseflesh]

I think you guys will like it.

Bring a highlighter or a notepad...

 

[Miraculix]

The more you know, the more you realize you don't know. Keep play around with things, that's half the fun of brewing right?

I want to try using loads of old cheesy hops to make fruity flavors.

Can you elaborate a bit more on the cheesy hop thing please? Never heard of using these except in lambics.

 

[Mer-man]

Can you elaborate a bit more on the cheesy hop thing please? Never heard of using these except in lambics.

The research suggested that the oxidized (cheesy) hop compounds get biotransformed back into fruity flavours and aromas.

 

[Miraculix]

The research suggested that the oxidized (cheesy) hop compounds get biotransformed back into fruity flavours and aromas.

Oh, that's interesting, thanks. Any typical yeast suggestion that might be able of doing this?

 

[Jmspears]

Adding to my list... getting to be a long one

 

[VirginiaHops1]

If you listen to enough podcasts or interviews from breweries you'll realize a lot of them do it differently, even the ones that are touted as being the best. From grain bill(heavy wheat/oats vs not) or water(higher sulfate than Cl or vice versa) to dry hopping timing and temps. So there really are multiple ways to skin the cat and still produce world class beer. Probably the main reason that's possible is taste is so incredibly subjective. Ultimately you should just do you research about various methods and then experiment to find out what tastes best to your palate.

 

[vtipsy]

Oh, that's interesting, thanks. Any typical yeast suggestion that might be able of doing this?

I can't find my copy of the book but he writes about some strains with good potential for biotransformation. Including a wine yeast and the addition of enzymes like Rapidase Revelation https://scottlab.com/fermentation-cellar/enzymes/rapidase-revelation-aroma-100g-016266 .

There's this PDF from Lallemand https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/wp...bestpractices-Biotransformation-digital-1.pdf which is interesting.

For my crack at a cheesy hops IPA I'm thinking about splitting the batch, using a different yeasts then re-combining. London Ale III and WLP644 Brux Trios.

 

[Mer-man]

Oh, that's interesting, thanks. Any typical yeast suggestion that might be able of doing this?

The book's like 20 bucks -- the poor writing and editing aside, it's totally worth it to pay Janish for all his research.

 

[Miraculix]

The book's like 20 bucks -- the poor writing and editing aside, it's totally worth it to pay Janish for all his research.

I agree. I love his blog.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I can't find my copy of the book but he writes about some strains with good potential for biotransformation. Including a wine yeast and the addition of enzymes like Rapidase Revelation https://scottlab.com/fermentation-cellar/enzymes/rapidase-revelation-aroma-100g-016266 .

There's this PDF from Lallemand https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/wp...bestpractices-Biotransformation-digital-1.pdf which is interesting.

For my crack at a cheesy hops IPA I'm thinking about splitting the batch, using a different yeasts then re-combining. London Ale III and WLP644 Brux Trios.

Here's a really interesting blog post of his discussing the topic.

https://scottjanish.com/thiol-drive...HxJuVfwZg5DJQ1WDXpAvIybhMj_S41i11yx7_XAKBxQQk

 

[wepeeler]

I absolutely loved this book. So many awesome concepts broken down all in one spot. It was nice that he showed documentation from actual studies, but doesn't force the reader to react one way or another. Everyone has their own opinions on nearly everything brew related.

The take aways for me: 1) water chem means more than I previously thought, 2) dry hopping time and temp means more than I thought, and 3) whirlpool temps mean more than I thought. It was also nice to see certain hops broken down by AA%, what hops can biotransform, and basically everything hop related.

Certain things in the book made me question my methods during all stages of the brewing process. It was nice to not have the information presented in a, "This is the only way to do it", but rather, a, "These are the findings, do what you will with them".

He made the science part of it understandable, even if I had to re-read parts of it. There is so much information that it was impossible to digest it all in the first read through.

My beer has definitely improved since reading this. I highly recommend, especially if you brew neipas.

Janish mentioned chit malt to improve haze stability, but I can't seem to find it anywhere. I substituted Fawcett malted oats for the flaked oats I used to use, and it's made a world of difference in both mouthfeel and haze. Janish also mentions Great Western 2 row as a nice slightly sweeter base than standard 2 row. Can't say I taste a major difference from one to the other, but the haze and carbonation are amazing. Pillowy goodness.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Greatfermentations has chit malt

https://shop.greatfermentations.com/product/best-malz-chit-malt/specialty-grains

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Janish mentioned chit malt to improve haze stability, but I can't seem to find it anywhere.

Given the attention given to Chit Malt from Scott and Mike, I am surprised more vendors do not sell it.

I saw some info that Wyermann Carafoam was similar in that both were undermodified malts (different than Briess Carapils). I picked up a lb of Carafoam but have not given it a try yet.

Also from some Scott Janish research, I am growing skeptical that throwing some Carapils in my mash is actually doing much for my beers, though it sounds like steeping Carapils does actually add dextrins. I would love to pull off a 4 way experiment with Base vs Mashed Carapils vs Steeped Carapils vs Carafoam...maybe need a 5th with Chit Malt.

 

[wepeeler]

Given the attention given to Chit Malt from Scott and Mike, I am surprised more vendors do not sell it.

I saw some info that Wyermann Carafoam was similar in that both were undermodified malts (different than Briess Carapils). I picked up a lb of Carafoam but have not given it a try yet.

Also from some Scott Janish research, I am growing skeptical that throwing some Carapils in my mash is actually doing much for my beers, though it sounds like steeping Carapils does actually add dextrins. I would love to pull off a 4 way experiment with Base vs Mashed Carapils vs Steeped Carapils vs Carafoam...maybe need a 5th with Chit Malt.

I agree. I thought it would readily available. I've used carapils in older recipes of my neipa, but I no longer use it. I honestly don't think it helped my beer at all. The biggest difference in my neipas has been the addition of malted oats. Increased mouthfeel. Never any issues with carbonation or head retention. Never tried carafoam.

 

[cactusgarrett]

I actually asked Mike T about chit as a result of one of his FB posts. He mentioned at Sapwood they use 5-10% chit to get that pillowy head. Additionally, i saw Scott share Chapter 7 of his book yesterday on his blog. In particular, the last section on "Malts & Head Retention" goes into detail on chit malt:

There are certain malts created with the exact purpose of being under-modified to help with head retention and chit malt is a good example of this. Even though the protein percentage of chit malt is like 2-row (because it is 2-row barley) it’s the reduction in the modification of these proteins during malting, not the total percentage of protein, that ultimately helps with head retention. As a bonus, chit is high in starter enzymes and can also increase conversion of starch.

Looking closer at chit malt, a study was done where five different beers were brewed substituting either 10%, 20%, 30%, and 40% of the pilsner grist with chit malt. The authors found that all the beers made with chit malt had higher foam stability (NIBEM values) than the control of 100% barley malt. The best foam stability was tested in beers made with 10% and 30% chit malt beers.

The authors of the above study suggest that chit malt can increase foam-active polypeptides at the same time it reduces the number of negative polypeptides, which are haze-active compounds. In other words, chit malt can enhance head retention while also slightly increasing clarity. This is the opposite of other protein-rich options like malted wheat, where modified proteins from malting can increase haze when paired with hop polyphenols. Again, I find myself praising chit malt, but it’s an interesting option for hazy IPAs that get too murky or have too much polyphenol vegetative bite. Reducing some of the haze to a “sheen” with chit malt while also lowering protein/polyphenol astringency and boosting head retention are all good reason to experiment with malt. In my experience, using chit malt at around 10% of the grist helps produce dense foam that looks whip crème-like.

I've been using it for the past couple months, but everything has been long-terms sours or traditionally lagered german lagers, so i don't have any empirical experience yet.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

If you listen to enough podcasts or interviews from breweries you'll realize a lot of them do it differently, even the ones that are touted as being the best. From grain bill(heavy wheat/oats vs not) or water(higher sulfate than Cl or vice versa) to dry hopping timing and temps. So there really are multiple ways to skin the cat and still produce world class beer. Probably the main reason that's possible is taste is so incredibly subjective. Ultimately you should just do you research about various methods and then experiment to find out what tastes best to your palate.

^^ It comes back to this.

I have read a dozen or so "secrets" to making an NEIPA (in some cases people claim they are a requirement to even call your beer an NEIPA) but in each case somebody points out a brewery that has lines for people to get there 99 Ratebeer score NEIPA that does not use those secrets.

While I have not yet fit in a weekend trip to Sapwood Cellars to try their beers, I am sure they make solid NEIPAs. I suspect it is not just because they use Chit Malt or because they dry hop at 54.3F.