I need help with my first Stout Recipe (Limited malt selection)

[garlicbread]

Hey!

I want to brew my first oatmeal stout. I don't want it to be overly bitter or overpowering. But complex malt flavors and a bit of sweetness would be great.
My problem is I'm limited on specialty malts I can buy.

I plan to brew 10L (~2.5 gallons)
The recipe I'm considering
66.7% Pale Ale - 2000g (4.4 pounds)
13.3 % Rolled Oats 400g (~0.9 pounds)
6.7% Weyermann CaraAroma 200g (~0.45 pounds)
5% Chocolate Rye Malt 150g (0.33 pounds) (All I have left)
8.3 % Cookie Malt (Like Bisquit Malt) 250g (0.55 pounds)

SG 1.064 | IBU 25 | ABV 6.2%

What bothers me is the Caramel Malts. I have two options to choose from.
CaraAroma - Weyermann® CARAAROMA® | BSG CraftBrewing | Bulk Brewing & Beer Supply Company
Which seems really strong 132L - 170L, almost like chocolate malt?

The other one is CaraRed, and I'm not sure about the flavor profile on this one.
https://www.weyermann.de/en-gb/product/weyermann-carared-4/

I'm also limited to 150g (0.33 pounds) of Chocolate Rye Malt I have left over.

Which malt of these two would you recommend for a stout? And what % should I use?
Am I using too many Oats?

 

[Beerstein]

You are def not using too many oats. You are pretty close to the minimum in my opinion.

I have not used CaraAroma, but it might be harsh up front and require extra time to mellow at 6.7%.

You could consider splitting equal amounts the CaraAroma and CaraRed. You could use more CaraRed than CaraAroma as it has less impact.

 

[D.B.Moody]

This may not be a helpful response, but why are you brewing a stout without any roasted barley?
If you have to pick one of the two you mentioned, I'd go with the CARRAOMA.
By the way, one of my sons lived in Tbilisi for a couple of years at the end of the 1990's.

 

[AlexKay]

Chocolate rye is the thing. If you had more, you'd put more in, but this'll do. And yes, I'd put more oats in, for oaty goodness. Looks pretty solid otherwise. Hopping?

 

[garlicbread]

You are def not using too many oats. You are pretty close to the minimum in my opinion.

I have not used CaraAroma, but it might be harsh up front and require extra time to mellow at 6.7%.

You could consider splitting equal amounts the CaraAroma and CaraRed. You could use more CaraRed than CaraAroma as it has less impact.

Thanks, I'll probably switch to CaraRed. CaraAroma seems to have a harsher dark caramel taste which I want to avoid.

This may not be a helpful response, but why are you brewing a stout without any roasted barley?
If you have to pick one of the two you mentioned, I'd go with the CARRAOMA.
By the way, one of my sons lived in Tbilisi for a couple of years at the end of the 1990's.

TBH I thought they were interchangeable for stout and I like rye taste in beer. But the selection is also limited at the moment.
Glad to say the situation here much improved since the 90s Though still a lot of problems.

Chocolate rye is the thing. If you had more, you'd put more in, but this'll do. And yes, I'd put more oats in, for oaty goodness. Looks pretty solid otherwise. Hopping?

Thanks, is 15% good, or should I try more?
For hops, I want to get around 20-25 IBU. I thought to use hops only for bittering, as I'm not sure how well hop aromas would work in a stout.
Since it's for bittering I'll use the cheapest aroma hops I have in the fridge. I also have a bunch of wild hops I harvested, but I have no idea what % AA they have and I don't want to risk them in a stout.

I'll probably brew a small batch of Pale ale to test the bitterness and aroma in wild hops

 

[BigEd]

5% chocolate malt isn't going to get you what most consider dark enough for stout. 10% dark roasted malt would be a default target. Roasted barley is usually one of the dark components in a stout grain bill although black patent or a Carafa III could be used to supplement. Your probaby going to wind up with more of a brown ale color.

6.7% CaraAroma may be a bit too much. It's a great malt but might be too aggressive in that quantity. I'd cut it back a bit and use a portion of a lower L caramel/crystal between 50-75L.

As is your grain bill is already 20% specialty malt between the dark and caramels. That's a lot IMO.

If you cannot access more malt then use what you have. If you can get additional malts I'd shoot for something like this:

75% pale malt

10% dark (5% each of the chocolate rye and 5% of roasted barley or Carafa III)

10% oats

5% caramel/crystal

 

[z-bob]

I brew a porter that all my friends love, and it's 90% pale malt, 5% black patent, and 5% light crystal (20L or 40L.) All the inky blackness and the roastiness (is that a word?) comes from just 5% black malt. If I was calling it a stout, I'd use 550L roasted barley instead of black malt. But my point is, chocolate malt is not as dark as black malt but I think it has a harsher flavor. At 5%, the beer will not be dark enough but you don't want to add more or it will taste burnt. I've not used CaraAroma; I know it's a very dark crystal malt, but I doubt that's what you need here.

If you can add some Carafa Special III or Midnight Wheat malt to what you have to darken it up, and use a lighter-roast crystal (maybe 60L) I think it will be better. The pale malts and the oats look good.

 

[ebbelwoi]

I use about 7% each of Weyermann Carafa I (chocolate) and Caraaroma in my usual porter recipe. I like the result. I don't find the Caraaroma to be harsh or overpowering at all, but YMMV.

For my amber/altbier recipe, I add 7% Caraaroma to my usual APA grain bill.

 

[Miraculix]

A stout is a simple beer, like almost all beers.

Don't go over 10% oats or you risk losing head retention.

10% crystal is fine if you like it sweeter, use the carared for this.

10% roasted malt or barley is the default for a normal UK abv stout, so you might end up with more of a dark brown ale with only 5%, but that's also ok.

You can include a late hop addition, preferably English or other noble varieties, but you do not have to, stouts also work well with bittering additions only.

Last but not least, mash at the upper end and use S04, so that some of the sweetness is retained after fermentation. This will get you a sweeter stout. Do not use highly attenuative yeast like us05, if you want it sweeter.

 

[garlicbread]

Thanks for the suggestions!
I have found an option for Carafa Special Type 3 - Weyermann® CARAFA® SPECIAL Type 3 – Weyermann® Spezialmalze
But is this even usable in brewing?

Enzymatic activity: none
Use: baking agents and other foods

If not something between a brown ale and stout should also taste good I think. I might go with that and brew true stout when sellers restock.

 

[z-bob]

But is this even usable in brewing?

Enzymatic activity: none
Use: baking agents and other foods

Any dark roasted malt or crystal malt has no enzyme activity. Your pale malt has way more enzymes than it needs to convert itself and it "lends" enzymes to the specialty malts and to the unmalted grains (like the oats)

I have no idea what they are talking about "baking agents and other foods", Carafa Special 3 is a very dark roasted malt with the husk removed (husk removal is the "special" part, there's also Carafa 3 that still has the husk.) Perhaps it could be used as a coloring and flavoring in pumpernickel breads.

 

[tracer bullet]

The caraaroma is more the color of a

But is this even usable in brewing?

Absolutely. It's pretty dark but it'll give some "dark beer" flavors for certain.

If that is available... is their I or II also available? Because if you want an actual stout, it's the kind of thing you're going to want to include.

 

[garlicbread]

I made a mistake, google took me to food section when I searched Special type 3.
They also have brewing malt with same name: Weyermann® CARAFA® SPECIAL Type 3 – Weyermann® Spezialmalze

 

[tracer bullet]

I think we can understand that you have a limited selection of malt available. Do you have a list, or website, that you are choosing from? If you can share it, you might get better suggestions. Up to now it's been based on your first post, that they were the only options. But if more options are available, that definitely changes things.

 

[garlicbread]

Sure!
So X are unavailable malts.

 

[garlicbread]

So, based on suggestions
66.7% Pale
5% Carafa III
5% Chocolate Rye
5% Carared
5% Biscuit
13.3% Oats

Or should I drop Biscuit?

 

[Miraculix]

Sure!
So X are unavailable malts.


View attachment 782884
View attachment 782885
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10% carared, 10% carafa 3, 10% oats, Rest pale ale. 20ibus Bittering only, Single Rest mash @70 c for 60 minutes, og 1,045 to 1,05. I'd go with 1.045, but I prefer my beers not so strong.

 

[Miraculix]

So, based on suggestions
66.7% Pale
5% Carafa III
5% Chocolate Rye
5% Carared
5% Biscuit
13.3% Oats

Or should I drop Biscuit?

Way too busy, see above.

 

[tracer bullet]

10% carared, 10% carafa 3, 10% oats, Rest pale ale.

So many options. This would be good I'm sure. For me, I'd lean towards 5% carared, 5% chocolate rye, 10% Carafa III, 10% oats, and the rest Pale Ale. I think the red would help give some sweetness and the rye make a contribution something like but different than the Carafa III.

 

[Miraculix]

So many options. This would be good I'm sure. For me, I'd lean towards 5% carared, 5% chocolate rye, 10% Carafa III, 10% oats, and the rest Pale Ale. I think the red would help give some sweetness and the rye make a contribution something like but different than the Carafa III.

Op can start playing around with stuff like this once he has a proper understanding of what each ingredient brings to the table.

I would actually suggest to brew the simplest stout possible with 10% carafa 3 and rest pale ale malt. Next beer would be the same with additional 10% Carared and then the next one the same again plus 10% oats.

This is what I did when I started brewing stouts and that way I got a pretty good idea about the differences of the different roasted Malts and grains and that I personally do not like chocolate malt at all and that it has nothing to to do with chocolate whatsoever except the colour.

... Have not tried chocolate rye though.

 

[ebbelwoi]

I have no idea what they are talking about "baking agents and other foods", Carafa Special 3 is a very dark roasted malt with the husk removed (husk removal is the "special" part, there's also Carafa 3 that still has the husk.) Perhaps it could be used as a coloring and flavoring in pumpernickel breads.

I always keep ground Carafa Special III in my baking cabinet for dark breads. A tablespoon is enough. I even replace the water in the recipe with porter.

 

[Miraculix]

I always keep ground Carafa Special III in my baking cabinet for dark breads. A tablespoon is enough. I even replace the water in the recipe with porter.

Maaaaan that's a brilliant idea! Thanks, will do the same! I will bake a tropical stout bread soon .

 

[ebbelwoi]

Maaaaan that's a brilliant idea! Thanks, will do the same! I will bake a tropical stout bread soon .

After that, maybe some Schwarzbier Schwarzbrot?

 

[garlicbread]

I always keep ground Carafa Special III in my baking cabinet for dark breads. A tablespoon is enough. I even replace the water in the recipe with porter.

I used Chocolate Rye malt tea as a liquid for Pretzel dough. It was amazing.