I need advice with my stuck fermentation...

[hexXedBrewing]

I think I have a stuck fermentation.
This is my 2nd batch ever.

My original gravity was 1.07 on January 14th, and I just measured it today (Jan27th) and it's at 1.038.
I tasted it and it's actually really delicious, but it's still quite sweet and sticky.

It's probably completely my fault, but here's what I did...

Steeped the 1 lb crystal 60L for 40min

Boiled:
1oz Centennial 35min
.5oz Chinook 35min
1oz Nugget 35min
1oz Kent Golding 10min
.5oz Cascade 5min

2lb of Pale LME for 35min
6lb of Pale LME for last 15min

Total boil was 2.3 gallons for 35 min.

Poured one gallon of chilled water into fermenter.
Poured wort into fermenter and put another one gallon of chilled water on top.

Wort was around 80F so I sealed it and put it in the fridge for an hour and it finally came down to 72F.
(I forgot the chill the wort while it was in the pot.) - mistake #1

Took OG of 1.068 and adjusted for the high temp, it was 1.07.

Fermenter had total of 4.3 gallons of wort.

The Wyeast 1056 was a balloon by the time I pitched it.

I didn't shake very well right before I pitched it, so I ran put like 3oz of water in and shook it up and poured the rest in.
(Mistake #2)

After 5 days I threw in my dry hopping hops:
.5oz Cascade
.5oz Chinook
1oz Nugget

Today I drew a sample to get FG and got 1.038.

I would think after two full weeks the fermentation should be done, but it seems to not have attenuated to it's full extent.

The avg temp has been 70F in the house, and the thermometer on the bucket says it's been around 66F on avg. I think 64F was its lowest, and 68F its highest.

What would be your advice to do?

Repitch some more yeast?
Stir it and wait?

I'm going to raise the wort temp to around 70F overnight for now.

Thanks for any advice!

 

[ehedge20]

Write again in another week. Still too soon to tell.

 

[Yoop]

It's been 70 in the house but the thermometer says it has been fermenting lower than that?

 

[RM-MN]

Move the fermenter from the floor to a counter top or table to get to a warmer location. Warm the room it is in to 73 to 75 degrees for a week (that much extra heating shouldn't break the bank, use a portable heater if necessary), swirl the fermenter to get more yeast in suspension and take another gravity sample when the week is over and report back.

 

[brtisbuck]

Someone may be able to give more info on this than me, but it seams that with an OG of 1.07 if you only pitched one pack of 1056 without a starter the yeast may be tired. I don't have access to my brewing software now, but Beersmith would probably recommend over 250 billion yeast cells. Wyeast packs are well under that without a starter. Maybe someone can crunch the #'s for you.

 

[hexXedBrewing]

It's been 70 in the house but the thermometer says it has been fermenting lower than that?

yea the theramstats upstairs and it's been fermenting downstairs, so i guess downstairs is a minus 3 or 4 difference.

I'm going to take it upstairs and swirl it and wait a week.

 

[hexXedBrewing]

Someone may be able to give more info on this than me, but it seams that with an OG of 1.07 if you only pitched one pack of 1056 without a starter the yeast may be tired. I don't have access to my brewing software now, but Beersmith would probably recommend over 250 billion yeast cells. Wyeast packs are well under that without a starter. Maybe someone can crunch the #'s for you.

yea beersmith tells me I should use a 206 billion starter.
I think beersmith was right.

 

[hexXedBrewing]

Move the fermenter from the floor to a counter top or table to get to a warmer location. Warm the room it is in to 73 to 75 degrees for a week (that much extra heating shouldn't break the bank, use a portable heater if necessary), swirl the fermenter to get more yeast in suspension and take another gravity sample when the week is over and report back.

im gonna do just that! thanks for the tip.
i leave my comp on all the time and it's gets up to 74F in that room haha.

 

[DJG42]

I think mistake #3 was under-pitching.
pitch another smack pack, or wait it out. There is plenty of yeast in there, just going to take some time..

 

[midfielder5]

I think mistake #3 was under-pitching.
pitch another smack pack, or wait it out. There is plenty of yeast in there, just going to take some time..

Yes, two pouches were needed from the start, or a 1+ liter starter from one.
{or 1 packet of dry US 05, which is half the price of liquid}

 

[hexXedBrewing]

I've heard good thing about the US 05 yeast. I might try that for my next batch.

 

[brtisbuck]

I've heard good thing about the US 05 yeast. I might try that for my next batch.

I've recently started using it for it's ease and cost on bigger beers. One packet of US 05 has about 200 billion cells. It can handle much more gravity than a liquid. Also, they don't really recommend a starter with it. You can rehydrate it and then pitch, or pitch it dry.

 

[hexXedBrewing]

Hey guys! This morning I checked the temp and it was at 73F and I swirled it around last night and again this morning. I came back home and I am counting about 27seconds between bubbles from the airlock now! It's back alive!!!!!!! I'm stoked!

BUT, is it okay for it to be at 73F? Should I bring it down to 70 or 68F?

Thanks!

 

[RM-MN]

The fermentation needs to be cooler for the initial fast ferment but once that is over the flavor is pretty much determined and warming it won't affect that but it will encourage the yeast to go on to complete the ferment. 73 would be fine and it probably would still be ok at 80 but I haven't tried that yet.

 

[flananuts]

Fermentation in higher gravity beers take longer. It's going to take about a month to fully ferment. Just because there's no airlock activity doesn't mean you're stuck. You might not have a great seal in your fermenter and the recent activity could be co2 or air displacement. I wouldn't worry too much about it other than forget about it for another week or two and take a sample. I've under pitched before both ales and lagers and they've turned out great. It will be fine.

 

[Calder]

What was the fermenter sitting on? If it was a concrete floor, the bottom of the fermenter could have been much lower than the 64 F measured on the side of the vessel.

I suspect the yeast went to sleep due to being cold. Warming it up should be (and seems to be) all you need to do.

A 1.070 beer should have been done in a week.

Don't worry too much about under-pitching; too late now to add any more. It could leave you with a high FG, but only a couple of points, not 1.038.

73 F is probably too high. At 1.038 you are still only half way thru. Now it's going, I would probably try and find somewhere that will keep it around 68 - 70 F.

 

[hexXedBrewing]

What was the fermenter sitting on? If it was a concrete floor, the bottom of the fermenter could have been much lower than the 64 F measured on the side of the vessel.

I suspect the yeast went to sleep due to being cold. Warming it up should be (and seems to be) all you need to do.

A 1.070 beer should have been done in a week.

Don't worry too much about under-pitching; too late now to add any more. It could leave you with a high FG, but only a couple of points, not 1.038.

73 F is probably too high. At 1.038 you are still only half way thru. Now it's going, I would probably try and find somewhere that will keep it around 68 - 70 F.

it's been on carpet. others say the higher gravity would take longer than a week to finish. maybe it shud have taken a week provided I made a bigger pitch. I'm keeping it at around 72F for now. I think another week is in order before I check the gravity. seems crazy to leave something fermenting for so long.

 

[flananuts]

Im then10 yrs of brewing partial mash and 3 yrs of all grain now I've never had a beer ferment out in a week. Granted I temperature control my fermentation and I only do primary, but a fermentation schedule is usually a month. Once you hit your FG the yeast still need time to clean up they by products of fermentation that lend to clear clean tasting beers. I anticipate that you'll have a lot of esters I this beer which will prolly taste great with your crystal and hop choices. During your primary through high krausen the temperature can rise because the yeast produce heat while converting the wort.

I will say your brew schedule seems odd. Were you following. Someone else's instructions? This site is hugely valuable but if you don't have Papazians book on home brewing I would suggest picking it up as a reference book.

Good luck on this beer

 

[Calder]

Im then10 yrs of brewing partial mash and 3 yrs of all grain now I've never had a beer ferment out in a week. Granted I temperature control my fermentation and I only do primary, but a fermentation schedule is usually a month. Once you hit your FG the yeast still need time to clean up they by products of fermentation that lend to clear clean tasting beers.

My comment was with respect to reaching final gravity, not bottle ready. The OP had less than 50% attenuation after 2 weeks, and your message gave the indication that it was normal in a high gravity beer. I don't think it is normal, and I don't think 1.070 is particularly high gravity. Yes; I agree, a higher gravity beer will take longer than a lower gravity beer. I temperature control and am usually at FG by the end of the first week. Sometimes in a few days. I am rarely in the bottle before 6 weeks.

 

[hexXedBrewing]

I do have the complete joy of homebrewing. it's fermentation graph shows there's not much more activity after a week (at least with respect to making alcohol). I think in my instance the yeast crashed somehow. maybe 64F was too cold for it? but either way it's showing activity now after I raises the temp up. I'm hoping I don't get too much diacetyl from the high temps.

 

[flananuts]

I doubt you'll get too much diacetyl from the ale yeast. Perhaps because I do 15 gallon batches t takes longer but I've never had the fortune of hitting my FG in one week even when brewing under pressure. Like I said before I'm sure your beer will turn out great.

 

[mewithstewpid]

Stupid question, but do u spin the hydrometer as you drop it? I have found that bubbles can prop up the hydrometer makining it seem higher than it is

 

[hexXedBrewing]

Stupid question, but do u spin the hydrometer as you drop it? I have found that bubbles can prop up the hydrometer makining it seem higher than it is

no it's a good question. I think that's one of the things I can execute better. I do spin it. but I'm using the little cylindrical container the hydrometer comes with, and I'm guessing that can't be a good way to do it cuz you can't prevent it from touching the sides. but I do take my time with the measurements and spin it and wait and make sure it's fully rested, and do this multiple times, before I write down the number.

I'm going to take a measurement tomorrow and see where I'm at. I'll let you guys know where it is.

 

[hexXedBrewing]

okay just checked my gravity. it's current at 1.024. so definitely still making progress!

 

[flananuts]

Keep us posted in this.

 

[hexXedBrewing]

I checked my gravity again last night and it was at 1.023, so I went ahead and bottled it last night. There was quite a thick layer of trub at the bottom of the bucket, I'd say about 2.5 inches high. (My first batch was prolly around 1.5 inches high) Must be all the extra hops that attributed to it.

ABV should be around 6%. There might have potential for better attenuation with a bigger starter, but I'm just glad it wasn't completely stuck. However, I think the temperature decreased the hop aroma, as it doesn't smell quite as fresh as a week ago.

My roommate and I each had a glass of it, and it was still quite cloudy. I'm not sure the Irish moss
did much for it (maybe I should've taken it out after the boil). Contrasted with the first time I tried it, there definitely was less sweetness; more yeast flavor (which should flocculate further in the bottle). Overall: it tastes very slighty sweet; the hop flavor is quite nice and varied; a noticeable bitter finish; I didn't notice the bitterness lingering too much (but I was also 6 beers deep).

My next batch is a Rogue Brutal IPA my bro-in-law got me. So I'll probably have my next brew day soon!

Thanks Homebrewtalk for all the tips!

 

[hexXedBrewing]

it's been a week since bottling so i threw one in the fridge and am now tasting it.
not sure how to describe the aroma/taste. but it's definitely off... I think I left it at 73F too long, cuz when I tasted it before it's full attenuation, it didn't have this off taste.

the off taste is like... cardboard-y, and it smells kinda of stale hops. it has a slippery effect on my tongue.

hopefully it gets better in a couple weeks -- my first batch definitely didn't have this throughout any stage. bleh =(

 

[flananuts]

At the risk of getting slapped on the forum, I think you're brewing process from the start seems off. Slippery certainly sounds like diacetyl but then I've never had it show up in my beer. The boil time for your malt and hop additions seem very short. 1.023 would also indicate that you either had more sugar to ferment and it's still fermenting in the bottle or you had a high amount of unfermentable sugars. Being a partial mash, what was the temperature of your water you steeped in? Could you have extracted tannins into your wort?

The only other suggestion I have is invest in corny kegs and dump the bottles, less risk for infection and easier to get from grain to glass.

Good luck.

 

[hexXedBrewing]

For the steep, I brought it up to where you just start getting little bubbles at the bottom of the kettle, flame out and steeped for 30 min, with the lid on.

I definitely am going to move to kegging, I just have to justify it with the wife, maybe the fact that my $60 of ingredients for this batch were wasted might help haha.

One of the local brew clubs here in SoCal is having an all grain brew day this weekend do I might just join and watch and learn.

I kinda want someone else to taste it to see if they've ever had this issue.

 

[LTownLiquorPig]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I have a quick question on slow ferment. I have an extract beer that's only down to 1.020 after 23 days with Nottingham. Here is what I did:

I Doric Canadian Beer Mix (1.5KG Hopped LME, BBD 08/13)
1KG Munton's Brew Enhancer (DME and Dextrose)
1.3 KG Munton's HMG (High Malt Glucose, contains Malt Extract, Maltrose, Dextrose, Maltotriose, Saccharides)
1 Pack Nottingham (BBD 02/13)
21 Litres in bucket.
OG was 1.055

Had no issues mixing or aerating, but couldn't get wort do cool as quickly as I had before. I used more boiled water this time, 6 Litres rather than 3-4. After 45 minutes of cooling (30 minutes in sink with 55* water and sitting outside for about 15 minutes in 15*) I finally pitched the Nottingham that I'd re-hydrated.

Sitting in my 56-58* basement to ferment.

The air temp was kinda cool, but I'd successfully brewed two other batches in it, one with Notty and one with the cheap yeast that came with another cheap Doric kit. I've since moved my fermenter into a room that has an ambient of 62* or so, and the sticky thermometer says the beer is about 60*-62*. Been there for about 10 days. The samples have tasted decent, but pretty sweet/cidery. I'd drink it as is, but I don't think it's done.

I'm thinking I want to chuck in another yeast pack, any thoughts?

 

[RM-MN]

If you have a warmer location to put it (like 72-74 F.) I'd suggest you swirl the fermenter gently to mix in more yeast and let it set another week. You may lower the FG a bit that way.

 

[hexXedBrewing]

Danstar says the recommended temp is between 57F and 70F, I'd just leave it at 63F for another few days. What's the gravity at right now?

Danstar says to start the fermentation at around 63F. If you plan on brewing it cold like you did, you'd have to expect it to take more like 3-4 weeks, cuz Danstar says it requires and adaption of the pitching rate for cold brewing. I'm guessing that means you should have rehydrated two packets or made a big starter for it.

 

[LTownLiquorPig]

If you have a warmer location to put it (like 72-74 F.) I'd suggest you swirl the fermenter gently to mix in more yeast and let it set another week. You may lower the FG a bit that way.

Danstar says the recommended temp is between 57F and 70F, I'd just leave it at 63F for another few days. What's the gravity at right now?

Danstar says to start the fermentation at around 63F. If you plan on brewing it cold like you did, you'd have to expect it to take more like 3-4 weeks, cuz Danstar says it requires and adaption of the pitching rate for cold brewing. I'm guessing that means you should have rehydrated two packets or made a big starter for it.

Thanks fellas. Had been planning on leaving it alone until Wednesday to take a reading again. Lesson learned, no two fermentations are the same, eh?

 

[hexXedBrewing]

update: I had my beer after a month now and the off flavors are much less pronounced. this actually tastes quite like BP's sculpin ipa and somewhat like manzanitas chaotic ipa. I think the sculpin actually has the same grassy after taste as this. now I don't feel so bad it has that taste. i think i prefer a cleaner tasting ipa like stone's or green flash's, but this is definitely not bad now. yay for aging!