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I hate LME!!!

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devaspawn

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So I attempted to make a Red Ale this weekend. Thanks to my 3.3 lbs of Light LME, I have a Brown Ale. I listened to a Podcast on Saturday about why LME gets darker but that doesn't console me in the least. Going forward, when extract brewing, I will only use DME. Also, for S&G I added 5 oz of dextrose sugar to raise the alcohol content. OG of 1.060

:tank:
 

Revvy

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Yep... I switched over to dme instead of lme...and in the case of some of the old kit recipes that I liked and may want to redo again, I recalculated those replacing lme with dme and doing late addition for the bulk of it.
 

Beerthoven

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I prefer DME also.

I'm mystified why so many homebrew shops continue to use LME in their kits. Its heavier and so more costly to ship, it darkens more than DME, and it can impart extract twang more so than DME.
 

Revvy

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Beerthoven said:
I prefer DME also.

I'm mystified why so many homebrew shops continue to use LME in their kits. Its heavier and so more costly to ship, it darkens more than DME, and it can impart extract twang more so than DME.
You're right, it never occured to me, especially about the shipping costs. I wonder if they think it stores better long term in kits than DME, or is more apt to survive the conditions of shipping or something? The longest I've ever had any DME lying around was about 3 weeks or so...

Maybe it's the ease of use for the new brewer...I think the DME clumping effect might scare a lot of people...(I still haven't perfected my adding DME without it clumping on the container/cup.)

I wonder if the guys at Austin Homebrew Supply would pop on to talk to us about it, from a business owner/supplier's standpoint. (Bold added to catch Forrest's attention, when he does his occasional search to see if anyone's got questions and concerns.)

Thanks in advance Forrest:D
 

SteveM

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I see this issue raised over and over and I mostly don't bother to reply because I am one of the people who dislikes DME. I find it a nuisance to work with. I can't stand how the vapor coming from my brew pot causes it to clump up on the bag. I find that LME, for me, is just much easier to handle. But this may be because of environmental factors that have little to do with the art of brewing - things like ambient humidity, the size and shape of my brew pot and so on.

Also, as long as we're on the subject, after using it many times, I don't care for Briess malt extracts, either dry or liquid. I use Cooper's or Munton's, both of which seem to give fuller flavors than Briess.
 
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devaspawn

devaspawn

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Well I used Cooper's LME so I guess if it's better than Briess I have that to look forward too. I just was hoping to have a nice red ale and...Ahhh...I should just RDWHAHB and forget about color. I am still going to avoid LME like the plague though.

:tank:
 

Revvy

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devaspawn said:
Well I used Cooper's LME so I guess if it's better than Briess I have that to look forward too. I just was hoping to have a nice red ale and...Ahhh...I should just RDWHAHB and forget about color. I am still going to avoid LME like the plague though.

:tank:
Or you could add some red food coloring. (If it's good enough for the st paddy's day noobs to want to dye their prized homebrew, then why not you?):D

I am kidding here!!!!

:mug:
 

skeeordye11

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Everyone bad mouths LME, but as previously stated, most kits are shipped with it. Especially AHS kits as they are revered over and over on here. If it's so bad, then why do so many people like the AHS kits? Is it the brand they use, or the packaging perhaps? Just curious because I just ordered my first 2 AHS kits and I am wondering what sets them apart from others. Any input would be great.
 

5 Is Not Enough

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Bulk LME is about 1/2 the price of bulk DME - at least for me. I would recommend DME w/ late extract edition for any beer you want to keep light, though. Personally, I've decided not to brew another light beer until I move to AG...
 

Austinhomebrew

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Beerthoven said:
I prefer DME also.

I'm mystified why so many homebrew shops continue to use LME in their kits. Its heavier and so more costly to ship, it darkens more than DME, and it can impart extract twang more so than DME.

1. Homebrew stores use LME in their kits because DME is so much more expensive. Homebrew stores do not make as much profit on DME as they do on LME.

2. The little amount more it cost to ship is overshadowed by the extra profit made.

3. If you use the right LME it has a lovibond of 1.1 and 2-row's lovibond of 1.8.
Don't use LME in a can it is dark.

4. LME "twang" comes form LME in cans only. Bulk LME does not taste "twangy" (read as metallic as in LME for a metal can). Do not use LME from a can.

Forrest
 

Beerthoven

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Austinhomebrew said:
1. Homebrew stores use LME in their kits because DME is so much more expensive. Homebrew stores do not make as much profit on DME as they do on LME.

2. The little amount more it cost to ship is overshadowed by the extra profit made.

3. If you use the right LME it has a lovibond of 1.1 and 2-row's lovibond of 1.8.
Don't use LME in a can it is dark.

4. LME "twang" comes form LME in cans only. Bulk LME does not taste "twangy" (read as metallic as in LME for a metal can). Do not use LME from a can.

Forrest
Thanks, Forrest, good to know! :mug:
 

McKBrew

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5 Is Not Enough said:
Bulk LME is about 1/2 the price of bulk DME - at least for me. I would recommend DME w/ late extract edition for any beer you want to keep light, though. Personally, I've decided not to brew another light beer until I move to AG...
+1. I have spent quite a bit of money the last few days setting up for All Grain. I have no luck with LME, and don't like the price of DME. While I am telling my SWMBO (and myself) that the reason I'm going AG is to save money, it's going to take quite a few batches to start breaking even. Found out yesterday that my new boil pot won't fit in my gas smoker (where I normally boil), so now I have to go drop more money for a burner.

But it will all be worth it in the end to have lower cost, high quality brews. :ban:
 

Hagen

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That did come out rather dark, didn't it?
I'm about to cut my DME usage in half. I don't really have enough room to go AG. I do have enough room to mash up to 7lbs of grain. So I can get away with a 4-5gal boil, and a late addition of 3lbs DME' It should make for some tasty brews.
 

McKBrew

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Austinhomebrew said:
4. LME "twang" comes form LME in cans only. Bulk LME does not taste "twangy" (read as metallic as in LME for a metal can). Do not use LME from a can.

Forrest
Maybe it's just me then, but every LME beer I've made (even stuff stored in plastic drums) has had the same off-taste.
 
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devaspawn

devaspawn

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Austinhomebrew said:
3. If you use the right LME it has a lovibond of 1.1 and 2-row's lovibond of 1.8.
Don't use LME in a can it is dark.

4. LME "twang" comes form LME in cans only. Bulk LME does not taste "twangy" (read as metallic as in LME for a metal can). Do not use LME from a can.

Forrest
I want to cry now. I used Coopers from a can...:(

:tank:
 

Austinhomebrew

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skeeordye11 said:
Everyone bad mouths LME, but as previously stated, most kits are shipped with it. Especially AHS kits as they are revered over and over on here. If it's so bad, then why do so many people like the AHS kits? Is it the brand they use, or the packaging perhaps? Just curious because I just ordered my first 2 AHS kits and I am wondering what sets them apart from others. Any input would be great.

We use the right LME. We sold 17,000 beer kits last year and at least 2/3 of them were extract kits so people seem to like our kits.
 

Austinhomebrew

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devaspawn said:
I want to cry now. I used Coopers from a can...:(

:tank:

Have no fear Cooper's is the only malt extract manufacturer that is an actual brewery. You should be ok.
 
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devaspawn

devaspawn

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Austinhomebrew said:
Have no fear Cooper's is the only malt extract manufacturer that is an actual brewery. You should be ok.
Thanks for that. I was agonizing and that makes me feel much better.

:tank:
 

Revvy

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Austinhomebrew said:
1. Homebrew stores use LME in their kits because DME is so much more expensive. Homebrew stores do not make as much profit on DME as they do on LME.

2. The little amount more it cost to ship is overshadowed by the extra profit made.

3. If you use the right LME it has a lovibond of 1.1 and 2-row's lovibond of 1.8.
Don't use LME in a can it is dark.

4. LME "twang" comes form LME in cans only. Bulk LME does not taste "twangy" (read as metallic as in LME for a metal can). Do not use LME from a can.

Forrest
Thanks for coming on and discussing it from your perspective. I've used both to great success (never had extract twang)...I don't hate LME, Dme's just become my prefrence, like the guy who posted his prefrence for liquid.

I want to add, once again, that I appreciate having a reputable vendor on here to lend assistance and insight...Yet not pushing themselves and their services. (I almost wish I didn't live in an area with several great LHBS's to choose from, or else you'd become my primary supplier.)
 

Gedvondur

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SteveM said:
Also, as long as we're on the subject, after using it many times, I don't care for Briess malt extracts, either dry or liquid. I use Cooper's or Munton's, both of which seem to give fuller flavors than Briess.

I find this comment interesting, I use Briess DME all the time. I used to use Muntons, but switched over because of the cost of the imported Muntons DME and the fact that Briess is a local company for me.

I haven't used Cooper's DME, so I can't comment on that. What I can say is that I have brewed the same beers with Muntons and with Briess and I cannot tell a difference. I can't speak to the LME, I don't use it for many of the reasons listed in this thread.


Gedvondur
 

SteveM

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Gedvondur said:
I find this comment interesting, I use Briess DME all the time. I used to use Muntons, but switched over because of the cost of the imported Muntons DME and the fact that Briess is a local company for me.

I haven't used Cooper's DME, so I can't comment on that. What I can say is that I have brewed the same beers with Muntons and with Briess and I cannot tell a difference. I can't speak to the LME, I don't use it for many of the reasons listed in this thread.


Gedvondur
What tastes good to me might not appeal to you. As the old saying goes, in matters of taste there can be no dispute.
 

skeeordye11

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Austinhomebrew said:
We use the right LME. We sold 17,000 beer kits last year and at least 2/3 of them were extract kits so people seem to like our kits.
I'm very excited to find out just how good they are for myself. I'm sure I will not be disappointed with all the positive ******* on here. Nothing like trusting complete strangers!
 

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devaspawn said:
So I attempted to make a Red Ale this weekend. Thanks to my 3.3 lbs of Light LME, I have a Brown Ale. I listened to a Podcast on Saturday about why LME gets darker but that doesn't console me in the least. Going forward, when extract brewing, I will only use DME. Also, for S&G I added 5 oz of dextrose sugar to raise the alcohol content. OG of 1.060

:tank:

what kit did you make?
 

BrooZer

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devaspawn said:
I made the Brewer's Best Red Ale.

:tank:

I was looking at getting that kit this week. Do you think it has anything to do with the black petent malt?

What kind/brand of yeast came with it?
 
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devaspawn

devaspawn

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BrooZer said:
I was looking at getting that kit this week. Do you think it has anything to do with the black petent malt?

What kind/brand of yeast came with it?
The black patent malt brought it to a good reddish amber color when i steeped it with the other grains. i dropped in the DME light and it stayed pretty much the same color. i dropped that frackin' LME in and all of a sudden I had a dark brown beer with reddish hints. I recommend either reading up on late LME additions (I thought I heard a podcast that said that helped with LME color) or buying 2.7 lbs of light DME and replacing the liquid with that if you are worried about the color.

:tank:
 

BrooZer

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devaspawn said:
The black patent malt brought it to a good reddish amber color when i steeped it with the other grains. i dropped in the DME light and it stayed pretty much the same color. i dropped that frackin' LME in and all of a sudden I had a dark brown beer with reddish hints. I recommend either reading up on late LME additions (I thought I heard a podcast that said that helped with LME color) or buying 2.7 lbs of light DME and replacing the liquid with that if you are worried about the color.

:tank:

Im thinking of replacing the LME with DME thanks to your thread!

What yeast did it come with. I have to buy the ingredients seperately.
 
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devaspawn

devaspawn

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BrooZer said:
Im thinking of replacing the LME with DME thanks to your thread!

What yeast did it come with. I have to buy the ingredients seperately.
sorry... Nottingham dry yeast is what it came with. Glad I could be of service :mug:

:tank:
 

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I've made several batches of the BB Red(SWMBO's fav), and they always come out a pretty, albeit a little dark, red. Maybe you had a mislabeled can? I've recently switched to the late addition method and the most recent batch is definitely lighter red, but the old ones certainly weren't brown.:confused:
 

reshp1

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shafferpilot said:
I've made several batches of the BB Red(SWMBO's fav), and they always come out a pretty, albeit a little dark, red. Maybe you had a mislabeled can? I've recently switched to the late addition method and the most recent batch is definitely lighter red, but the old ones certainly weren't brown.:confused:
Ditto, I've made that kit on my first batch and it turned out a deep ruby red. I boiled almost 4 gallons instead of the recommended 1.5 gal or whatever, which might have cut down on the caramelization of the LME.
 

SteveM

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Leaving steeping grains in too long will also darken a brew up pretty quickly. Make sure you take them out by the time the temp gets to about 160F.
 

Donasay

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I use LME it is much cheaper and can get good results, I have just 3 words for you: Late extract addition...
 

Mayday99

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Donasay said:
I use LME it is much cheaper and can get good results, I have just 3 words for you: Late extract addition...
Are you talking about using half the LME for the full boil and adding the other half at flameout?

Would I have to adjust my hopping schedule if I was using a kit since the utilization will be higher?
 

Revvy

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Mayday99 said:
Are you talking about using half the LME for the full boil and adding the other half at flameout?

Would I have to adjust my hopping schedule if I was using a kit since the utilization will be higher?
Not at flameout, do it with about 20 minutes remaining, so you can pasturize the second addition of lme by boiling for 15 minutes.

I never bother to re-calculate for late addition...actually utilization will improve...

If it's liquid LME I do half and half...if it's dme, I usually go for 2-2 1/2 pounds at boil and the remaining in the last 20 minutes...
 

The Bone2

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and they all are different color depending on the type of LME, steeping grains, etc...:confused:
 

shafferpilot

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I've run many BB kits through recipe calculators and they ALL come up way short on their stated IBU's, so I do full volume boils with late addition and the result is perfect.
 

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Revvy said:
Not at flameout, do it with about 20 minutes remaining, so you can pasturize the second addition of lme by boiling for 15 minutes.

I never bother to re-calculate for late addition...actually utilization will improve...

If it's liquid LME I do half and half...if it's dme, I usually go for 2-2 1/2 pounds at boil and the remaining in the last 20 minutes...

Liquid worked great in my Dubbel, but being a dark beer has advantages ^^.
 

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shafferpilot said:
I've run many BB kits through recipe calculators and they ALL come up way short on their stated IBU's, so I do full volume boils with late addition and the result is perfect.

Ive noticed that recently as well, i wonder why?

If you calculate based on the boil volume in their recipes it ends up at like Half the IBUs they say it is.
 
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