I don't want to open a brewery (and maybe you shouldn't either)
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Setsumi
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I am 50, can work another 15 years before mandatory retirement. I believe my generation and myself are going to get really old, out live our retirement funds (I live in South Africa, 1$ = 15 SA Rands). I would in a flash start a micro brewery at retirement, work wise it would beat making a living from carpentry or welding. After retirement age it is difficult to find employment in ones profession over here. To me the challenges would be certification or legalising and to develop a market...
One thing I think people forget/underestimate is that they will have to deal with people in a professional manner on a daily basis, even when they're being dicks. For the "front of the house" where the beet is being served, even if you hire bartenders, waiters and waitresses, ultimately if someone wants to see their manager, guess who's up? Yep, you. On the back end, you have to deal with salespeople, some of whom can be really scummy backstabbers (no offense to any honest salespeople reading this), government inspectors, business bankers, etc. etc. If you're the type of person that doesn't like to talk to people or lose your temper frequently, owning your own business isn't for you (no matter what business it is).
madscientist451
Well-Known Member
If I hit the lottery or get an inheritance from a long lost uncle, I'll open a brewery.
Or perhaps if my job offers early retirement and I don't really need to make a living.
I think having a "hobby" brewery, open two nights a week, would be a BLAST.
Probably not profitable, but more of a non profit liquid art/experiments in barrels project. Beer nerds and snobs welcome.
PS: would be open Mondays or Sunday nights if the Steelers are playing.
Or perhaps if my job offers early retirement and I don't really need to make a living.
I think having a "hobby" brewery, open two nights a week, would be a BLAST.
Probably not profitable, but more of a non profit liquid art/experiments in barrels project. Beer nerds and snobs welcome.
PS: would be open Mondays or Sunday nights if the Steelers are playing.
madscientist451
Well-Known Member
Move to the USA and we'll be partners....
ColoHox
Compulsive Hand Washer
What a whiner.
Opening a small business comes with significant risk and (in many cases) little reward, and a hell of a lot of effort. The people that get a reality check about opening their own brewery from this article probably shouldn't be considering it in the first place, but I see how that is part of his issue.
It's challenging to be an entrepreneur, and it's also exciting. Running a brewery is the same as running a restaurant, or a hair salon for that matter. The general challenges of running a successful business are fairly universal (or domestic, I mean). You (or I) can really tell when a new brewery has "the right stuff," the market will eventually weed out the rest.
I'm glad more people are taking the risk. I have had some damn good beer lately.
Opening a small business comes with significant risk and (in many cases) little reward, and a hell of a lot of effort. The people that get a reality check about opening their own brewery from this article probably shouldn't be considering it in the first place, but I see how that is part of his issue.
It's challenging to be an entrepreneur, and it's also exciting. Running a brewery is the same as running a restaurant, or a hair salon for that matter. The general challenges of running a successful business are fairly universal (or domestic, I mean). You (or I) can really tell when a new brewery has "the right stuff," the market will eventually weed out the rest.
I'm glad more people are taking the risk. I have had some damn good beer lately.
I can crank out two 15 gallon batches in 9-10 hours including clean up. My record is 5 batches in 19 hours with the help of my assistant. Full cip takes about an hour (caustic, rinse, saniclean, rinse)
I would totally love to open a brewpub, but never a brewery. Selling every drop of beer made over the bar and some good simple food to go with it. In NJ that means having to fork over $250k to buy one from another current or closed bar. Aaaaaand nevermind. I'll stick to the hobby, thanks.
I agree. I love this hobby and would hate to have to due it for a living. But that's not to say that I wouldn't mind being a silent partner in a brew pub.
radwizard
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I would love to brew for a living, but not interested in the business side of anything in the food and bev industry. Most the brewery's I visit are also restraunts, pubs, and wholesaling. Sounds like a nightmare. I don't see anything wrong with doing what you love (hobby) as a job, it is just that when it comes to running a brewing operation such little of that is actually brewing. If someone came up to me and asked If I could brew my beers for them on a large scale, I would jump right on it- but since that will never happen - I'm doing just dandy with my five gallons.
madscientist451
Well-Known Member
Agree 100%
I'm not surprised with the reaction "that's too much work"; many people I know have gotten used to doing very little at their jobs. Then they wonder why businesses want to downsize, outsource or sell out and close down.
The dreamers who blow a wad of cash and open without knowing anything will either figure it out or they won't and shut down.
Even with 4,000+ breweries, there's still plenty of room for more local beer.
madscientist451
Well-Known Member
The corrupt NJ legislature "allowed" citizens to open small breweries, but you have to "take a tour" to buy tasting samples.
At some point I would think the people would stand up to the lawyers and lobbyists and tell the Government to stop picking winners and losers and let the free market decide. OK, Rant over.
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I think the bolded section is what he was getting at. Speaking from the younger side of people, I can't tell you how many people I've seen rush into "great ideas!" with no idea what it really takes and a solid plan. I've watched one person local to me knee jerk jump into at least 5+ different "great ideas!" and none of them have worked.
The main thing that I think he was driving at is that before you get too lost in your fantasy of getting rich selling your own beer, you need to realize what else is involved. All the million things that come with running a business. He knows he doesn't want to deal with that stuff. Neither do I. It's not that I don't want to work hard, but I really don't want to deal with the crappy parts of running a place. If I had the money to do it, I'd be fully on board with building the place, brewing, interacting with patrons, but I do not want to deal with some of the other parts. I'd have to have other partners that are ok with taking on those other roles. That's how I am, and I know it won't work if I try to take on the things I really don't enjoy.
Of course this is all theoretical. Right now I make good money as an engineer and that lets me play with my racing, motorcylce, and brewing hobbies. Would I like to someday have a small, local, nano brewery? Sure. But not before I have the money, means, and time to do it.
I would in fact love to brew for a living. What I do now is more or less going this way - every brew I do is a step to perfecting this or exercising in that, so that maybe a year later I could feel strong enough to compete with existing breweries.
It is not turning hobby into job that has always set me off, it is the realization of the fact that a small brewery is more or less always a brew pub, and I am totally, completely and absolutely reluctant to spend my life at that side of the bar. I'm not a pub goer, there is nothing in a pub/bar atmosphere that I'd enjoy, and ideally I'd prefer to deal with the pipies, valvies, yeasties, potties, worties, mash tunnies and all that but never actually have to show up in the pub, except for having a pint incognito and listening what people are saying about my brews.
Then, a few weeks back I met an old friend who I haven't seen for years, and what he said was like 100% the opposite, like he'd be the happiest man in creation if he could spend his life tendering at the bar while someone else would do the brewing part.
Well, well
We shall see.
It is not turning hobby into job that has always set me off, it is the realization of the fact that a small brewery is more or less always a brew pub, and I am totally, completely and absolutely reluctant to spend my life at that side of the bar. I'm not a pub goer, there is nothing in a pub/bar atmosphere that I'd enjoy, and ideally I'd prefer to deal with the pipies, valvies, yeasties, potties, worties, mash tunnies and all that but never actually have to show up in the pub, except for having a pint incognito and listening what people are saying about my brews.
Then, a few weeks back I met an old friend who I haven't seen for years, and what he said was like 100% the opposite, like he'd be the happiest man in creation if he could spend his life tendering at the bar while someone else would do the brewing part.
Well, well
We shall see.
I worked in a winery back when I was in high school / college. It was a great job. The majority of the time was cleaning, transferring, bottling, then more cleaning. I would totally do it again. But I wouldn't want to own it. When I started homebrewing I thought about starting a brewery, but don't want to start a business.
McGreen
Well-Known Member
I LOVED this article. Very honest. But let the homebrewers give it a go, too. I am not a fan of these "facebook breweries" that homebrew, have a logo, a facebook account, and maybe even a banner or 2, but don't have a brewery or even a license yet. I believe the term is "brewery in planning." It confuses the **** out of bar owners when they see "Springfield Brewing Co." and try to order it, but can't because it doesn't exist. And won't for 4-5 years. It gives craft beer a bad name. But this article points out the real killer of craft beer: Mr. Beer. That article was even better. Good stuff, guys! RDWHAH
bradleyhunt
Well-Known Member
Dude, hit the nail on the head! Heaven forbid you have to (wait for it) work hard for something.
Problem is plenty of relatively inexperienced homebrewers with ZERO business or commercial brewing experience are working plenty hard with their new nanos and micros...and still putting out a mediocre to terrible product.
In PHL metro there are dozens of new breweries that have popped up in the last year or so, with another 30 planning to open this year. I've been to many, and sadly, the beer is rarely good, often mediocre, and many times infected and/or plagued with common off-flavors (DMS, diacetyl, acetaldehyde, etc.).
So yes, the beer world would be a much better place if more people listened to the author.
bradleyhunt
Well-Known Member
You can't actually say that, for certain. Because you would still have people start a brewery and make not good beer WHILE some of the people that listened to the author would have actually made good beer.
If you don't like their beer, don't go there anymore. Sounds like you'll have another 30 different breweries to try soon.
GHBWNY
Well-Known Member
I've had people say the same thing: "You should start your own brewery", or "you missed your calling", or "there's your retirement avocation." I've wondered, "What constitutes a 'brewery'?" It took only a second to consider that since having started homebrewing, all the above have come to pass. While my "brewery" is not a commercial operation, not big, not open to the public, not with a streetfront location, not subject to state and county health regulations, no regular hours, and certainly not showing a profit... it is also, not work. Just over two years ago, under my roof and at my time, expense and effort, I "opened a brewery"; in my cellar, on my stovetop, at my laundry sink, in my 6.5 gal fermenter, on my couch in my living room enjoying the fruits of my labor. Sometimes I get "customers" at my "brewery", but they never pay and always leave happy. And come back.
So, yeah, I could make my "brewery" bigger and better and well-known and more accessible to the public and profitable and subject to a whole new litany of laws, but it would be only those things --- and by no means more enjoyable. And probably less.
So, yeah, I could make my "brewery" bigger and better and well-known and more accessible to the public and profitable and subject to a whole new litany of laws, but it would be only those things --- and by no means more enjoyable. And probably less.
All this discussion about working hard is ridiculous. One can work like a dog 16-18 hours a day, 7 days a week at something, but if you don't know the finer points, you're just wasting your time and energy. Let's go ahead and use the current topic. I don't care how hard you work, how great your beer is. If you are ignorant to the ways of successful business and marketing, you are going to simply brew a lot of beer that no one knows to come drink, and/or you don't know how to sell it at a profit.
The simple fact that those of you that would judge the author of the article based on his honest self assessment is proof of concept, as well as a glaring testament to why businesses that are started by hobbyists tend to fail more often. Why is it assumed that just because you know how to brew great beer, you automatically know how to pick a great location (yes, the real estate mantra: location, location, location DOES matter), or have great record keeping/financial controls in place, or are a great money manager, or you have excellent time management skills? Who says you are the best at customer service. Just because you can talk my ear off about your beer or your process, doesn't mean you can make me happy when I come in to your tap room and your bartender (who happens to be your wife, because cheap labor) can't pour a beer from the tap without giving me a glass with the top half being foam, and I say something to you (not knowing or caring that it's your wife I'm saying something about, she's an employee doing something wrong in a customer service based business) and you get all pissy with me, BECAUSE she's your wife and you are incapable of separating the two.
Lastly, if you REALLY understand the concept of working hard, you would not even venture to judge anyone about it, because you would understand the concept of burnout. Go ahead, put your family's entire future and well being squarely on the shoulders of your success as a brewery owner/operator(or any business for that matter), and see how many of you armchair quarterbacks lose your minds and whatever hope of retirement savings you had in less than a couple years.
There's a fine line between negativity and reality. They both suck, just one hurts a little less than the other when applied in appropriate measure. And one can save your sanity, your marriage, and your financial future.
The simple fact that those of you that would judge the author of the article based on his honest self assessment is proof of concept, as well as a glaring testament to why businesses that are started by hobbyists tend to fail more often. Why is it assumed that just because you know how to brew great beer, you automatically know how to pick a great location (yes, the real estate mantra: location, location, location DOES matter), or have great record keeping/financial controls in place, or are a great money manager, or you have excellent time management skills? Who says you are the best at customer service. Just because you can talk my ear off about your beer or your process, doesn't mean you can make me happy when I come in to your tap room and your bartender (who happens to be your wife, because cheap labor) can't pour a beer from the tap without giving me a glass with the top half being foam, and I say something to you (not knowing or caring that it's your wife I'm saying something about, she's an employee doing something wrong in a customer service based business) and you get all pissy with me, BECAUSE she's your wife and you are incapable of separating the two.
Lastly, if you REALLY understand the concept of working hard, you would not even venture to judge anyone about it, because you would understand the concept of burnout. Go ahead, put your family's entire future and well being squarely on the shoulders of your success as a brewery owner/operator(or any business for that matter), and see how many of you armchair quarterbacks lose your minds and whatever hope of retirement savings you had in less than a couple years.
There's a fine line between negativity and reality. They both suck, just one hurts a little less than the other when applied in appropriate measure. And one can save your sanity, your marriage, and your financial future.
seefish
Well-Known Member
This goes without saying for any entrepreneurial venture.
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Shortest single batch brewday I've had on mine was ~5 hours. Longest was ~10.
n00b. Im gonna target 11 minutes, 11min27sec including cleanup
u even inlinedecoctantisweetboilmash br0????
I think the article was insightful in many ways, because it reinforces the idea that nothing worthwhile comes easily. Without business acumen, any prospective brewery is poised for failure. And for most homebrewers leading comfortable lives, the challenges associated with starting such a demanding business aren't worth the rewards.
As for me, I'm not naive. I know of the challenges associated with building a new business and the outstanding risks involved. But if it's what you're passionate about, isn't it worth saying that you at least tried?
As for me, I'm not naive. I know of the challenges associated with building a new business and the outstanding risks involved. But if it's what you're passionate about, isn't it worth saying that you at least tried?
Yeah, I almost think owning a bar or managing a restaurant bar is more important credentials than being able to brew if you are thinking of starting a brewery. There are a lot of things that experience can really help you with in that business. You can hire people that know how to brew. I guess you can hire people that know how to manage as well but that will not be cheap and are they going to have the same passion for the business as you? I work hard everyday for my Job as and engineer and the business that I started that my wife is not working at full time. At my regular full time job I have worked 30hours straight with out going home before, and many long hour days close to that. It isn't the norm but when things aren't getting produced due to issues the engineer figures them out at all costs. I already have 2 jobs and know if I quite them both running a brewery will be like 5 jobs. There are some really driven people that can pull this off. So if your one of them go for it. Competition for shelf space and handles is so much suffer today that is was even 2 years ago.
I can probably do 1 batch in 4.5 - 5 hours but then I have to clean up. That is at least another hour. I have been brewing on one and If I have all days I will start mashing in another batch while boiling the first batch. You got everything out anyway cuts down on the clean time. I have been working on some small batch stuff for a local brew pub so our thinking is I just brew and we have the grunt work help with the washing sanitizing and doing the clean up.
