Hypothetical question

[bracconiere]

Let's just say for a second, there was someone who was really impatient. And wanted their cheap apple juice to finish fermenting as fast as possible. What nutrients would you recommend? (and no turbo yeast, because although impatient, this person doesn't like the taste of urine)

I've, i mean they've, tried DAP and other things like a couple multi vites...?

 

[GoeHaarden]

this person doesn't like the taste of urine

Makes me wonder...

 

[bracconiere]

Makes me wonder...

View attachment 645046

lol, this hypothetical person prefers the flavor of yeast piss...Just wants them to piss more often...otherwise he's facing dehydration

 

[IslandLizard]

Trace elements.

One of them being Zinc.
Added in the form of Zinc Chloride or Zinc Sulphate. The latter is easier to obtain.
She only needs tiny amounts, best pre-dissolved to some ppm value, then administered drop-wise. Such as one drop per gallon or per quart.

 

[IslandLizard]

Also Mg, usually in the form of Epsom salt (MgSO4).

 

[bracconiere]

Trace elements.

One of them being Zinc.
Added in the form of Zinc Chloride or Zinc Sulphate. The latter is easier to obtain.
She only needs tiny amounts, best pre-dissolved to some ppm value, then administered drop-wise. Such as one drop per gallon or per quart.

hmm, i already fortify my homebrew with 2 50mg zinc supplement tablets, but i usually wait to add them till fermentation is done...i'll add them at the beginning next batch, thanks...

and a pinch of epsom salt, i have also for mash acidification....

(off to instacart to have 10 gallons of apple juice delivered to my door! )

 

[Yooper]

hmm, i already fortify my homebrew with 2 50mg zinc supplement tablets, but i usually wait to add them till fermentation is done...i'll add them at the beginning next batch, thanks...

and a pinch of epsom salt, i have also for mash acidification....

(off to instacart to have 10 gallons of apple juice delivered to my door! )

A tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny bit of zinc is what you would use. Like 1/10 of a gram. I leave it out, as it seems that cider does very well without any added nutrients.

If someone is in a huge hurry, I'd suggest using S04 ale yeast (an entire package), keeping it at 65 degrees, and a lowish OG, and it'll be done in a week easily.

I have a photo somewhere of a week-old cider that I racked. It was completely clear, like read a newspaper through it clear, using fresh pressed juice and S04.

 

[Seamonkey84]

Potassium carbonate is included in the BOMM protocol to assist buffering the must and provide potassium to help yeast pass the alcohol out of the cells. I think upping the amount of yeast you pitch, proper temp control, and degassing while it’s fermenting will help it along. Though one package of yeast is good for 5gal, doesn’t mean you can’t use 2-5 of them for a 5gal batch.

 

[bracconiere]

and a lowish OG

lol, but then this hypothetical scenario would change to making more....

Though one package of yeast is good for 5gal,

this person, who is definitely not me, i personally wait a full month for a batch before even kegging. But this hypothetical person repitches an entire yeast slurry from the last batch to the next...


anyway, i'm gonna call it good with 1.005 after 8 days in the fermenter with this one, and keg it now...just had 10 gals apple juice delivered, i'll try adding my zinc at the beginning, and a pinch of epsom salts. see how it goes....(i add the zinc anyway for my health, not yeast health)

 

[bmd2k1]

2nd S04 for a quick & clean ferment. It sometimes needs nutrients....

Cheers [emoji111]

 

[Seamonkey84]

this person, who is definitely not me, i personally wait a full month for a batch before even kegging. But this hypothetical person repitches an entire yeast slurry from the last batch to the next...

That was going to be my other suggestion lol.

 

[bracconiere]

That was going to be my other suggestion lol.

lol, gotta at least try and be a step ahead of the crowd.... (just dumpped 10 gals of kroger apple juice on top of the last trub, added my zinc, a pinch of epsom salts, some leucine, some proline...see how it goes)

 

[Blacksmith1]

@NeverDie was working on this very problem. Then he disappeared. He probably has your answer.

 

[wasully]

Some kveik strains ferment super fast and clean, supposedly. Especially at high temperatures.

Do a super warm ferment with extra nutrients?


I would suggest that you, excuse me, your friend, just go with larger batches, long term. Then each batch should last longer, letting the next age appropriately and be ready by the time #1 is tapped out.

 

[bracconiere]

Some kveik strains ferment super fast and clean, supposedly. Especially at high temperatures.

Do a super warm ferment with extra nutrients?


I would suggest that you, excuse me, your friend, just go with larger batches, long term. Then each batch should last longer, letting the next age appropriately and be ready by the time #1 is tapped out.

they do sell 50 gal plastic barrels at the feed store....

 

[blasterooni]

300mg of vitamin B-1 to 5 gallons. When I started adding that, the airlock went nuts, and the Krausen is so vigorous I needed blow off tube. I don't think it sped up fermentation necessarily, but boy did things get outta control! The krausen finally dropped a few days ago, and I'll be checking the gravity of both ciders today. That'll tell me the speed of fermentation, maybe it is faster?. Note that I was not intending on a fast ferment, both (US-05, and Nottingham) are in water/ice baths at 64F +/- , really intending for a moderate to slow primary

 

[blasterooni]

Oops, replied to the wrong post

 

[bracconiere]

300mg of vitamin B-1 to 5 gallons. When I started adding that, the airlock went nuts, and the Krausen is so vigorous I needed blow off tube. I don't think it sped up fermentation necessarily, but boy did things get outta control! The krausen finally dropped a few days ago, and I'll be checking the gravity of both ciders today. That'll tell me the speed of fermentation, maybe it is faster?. Note that I was not intending on a fast ferment, both (US-05, and Nottingham) are in water/ice baths at 64F +/- , really intending for a moderate to slow primary

i think i have a bag of thiamine also, i'll add a pinch..thanks!.

 

[bracconiere]

though may have a glass with breakfast.

and here i thought it was breakfast on the weekends!

 

[blasterooni]

Some kveik strains ferment super fast and clean, supposedly. Especially at high temperatures.

Do a super warm ferment with extra nutrients?


I would suggest that you, excuse me, your friend, just go with larger batches, long term. Then each batch should last longer, letting the next age appropriately and be ready by the time #1 is tapped out.

I just did a cider with Voss Kveik at 90F+/-, and yep, fast and clean. Didn't use any fining agents to clarify, it's a little hazy but that might be from the hops. From start to finish it was a little over 3 weeks I'd say. I misplaced the recipe and the notes...But, I did add DAP, B-1 (100mg to the 5 gallons, 300mg seems better), and yeast nutrient from the LHBS, maybe Fermaid O as well. I kegged it at 1.001, I liked (actually loved) the taste at that point.

 

[blasterooni]

and here i thought it was breakfast on the weekends!

Well, I couldn't resist, so I poured a short glass of the hopped cider

 

[bracconiere]

Well, I couldn't resist, so I poured a short glass of the hopped cider

makes life worth living!

 

[blasterooni]

makes life worth living!

Yep, and it was a good day! Gotta a lot of stuff done too despite semi-frequent trips to the keg for short pours

 

[blasterooni]

300mg of vitamin B-1 to 5 gallons. When I started adding that, the airlock went nuts, and the Krausen is so vigorous I needed blow off tube. I don't think it sped up fermentation necessarily, but boy did things get outta control! The krausen finally dropped a few days ago, and I'll be checking the gravity of both ciders today. That'll tell me the speed of fermentation, maybe it is faster?. Note that I was not intending on a fast ferment, both (US-05, and Nottingham) are in water/ice baths at 64F +/- , really intending for a moderate to slow primary

I checked the gravity and have concluded that the addition of B-1 didn't really speed fermentation up in either batch. One batch had an OG of 1.068 (SG=1.038) and the other 1.041 (SG=1.015). What is different between the two is that the lower gravity batch is heading toward the finish line quicker, its about 2/3 done, and was started on 9/13, the other is about half way and was started on 9/8. I think the B-1 just made the colony happier and healthier. That being said, a healthy colony would likely result in a faster fermentation period, but probably just by a day or two, from my super-novice guess that is...

 

[BeardedBrews]

I had success raising the temperature and fermenting under pressure with my ciders, although I do tend to just make sweet cider.

 

[bracconiere]

I think the B-1 just made the colony happier and healthier.

i'm not a sadist, if the yeast like thiamine, and make me feel good. then they'll get b-1! hypothetical persons batch with zinc and epsom salt isn't going any faster....

 

[blasterooni]

i'm not a sadist, if the yeast like thiamine, and make me feel good. then they'll get b-1! hypothetical persons batch with zinc and epsom salt isn't going any faster....

I'm starting to think that you can only get a four banger to go so fast no matter the fuel you give it. I blew the motor of a few mini-bikes as a kid adding this and that "fuel" to get it to got faster. I guess theres turbo yeast, and the kveik strains... those may already be fabricated to race. maybe theres a hormone that gets any yeast to go "bigger, faster, stronger", although research has found that yeast produces estrogen, however, auxins may be something that promotes yeast growth https://academic.oup.com/pcp/article-abstract/8/1/109/1894955

 

[BeardedBrews]

How fast does this hypothetical person need to go?

Are we looking for 24 hours to dry on a 1.080 juice? Or 96 hours to dry on a 1.065 juice?

 

[bracconiere]

How fast does this hypothetical person need to go?

Are we looking for 24 hours to dry on a 1.080 juice? Or 96 hours to dry on a 1.065 juice?

4 days on 1.060 juice....i know, i know, he's in a hurry....but i swear i can't get him to put the glass down! and a 4 banger would do better with some NO2, he told me he tried it, but the dentist wanted too much to fill his tank! this guy is a pain, i know.....

edit: anyone know a good patent to reference for turbo yeast?

 

[BeardedBrews]

4 days on 1.060 juice....i know, i know, he's in a hurry....but i swear i can't get him to put the glass down! and a 4 banger would do better with some NO2, he told me he tried it, but the dentist wanted too much to fill his tank! this guy is a pain, i know.....

That’s not out of the norm, you can totally get there. Heat that sucker up, it’s like no2 for yeast. Try 75f first, but I bet you’ll like 80f more.

If you ferment under pressure you get it carbonated at the same time, faster drinking!

 

[blasterooni]

might get a little buttery at those temps depending on the yeast, at least thats my experience. My wife called it buttery, i called it thick. It still did the "trick" nevertheless. and with some carbonation, the thickness dissipates a bit

 

[bracconiere]

faster drinking!

for shame, for shame....

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I think since you actually asked it, it has ceased to be a hypothetical question.
It is now a full-fledged actual question.

 

[bracconiere]

It is now a full-fledged actual question.

LOL

edit: it's just beer goes from 1.071 to 1.000 in 4 days...apple juice takes like 8-9 days to go from 1.060 to 1.000. i was assuming had to be some nutrients. thought i'd ask the public. (for my friend, because i'm perfectly content to just pour a jigger in a shot glass and get high on the smell of it!)

 

[cmac62]

I brewed some of the graf this weekend. Just added 1+ gals of my saison wort to 3.5 gals of aj and pitched notty. I think the wort will take care of all of the nutrients needed. Should be done in a day or two.