Huge change in water report

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

OK, sorry for a long post.

So, I've been scratching my head lately because I have had to use way more lactic acid than Brunwater predicts to adjust my sparge pH. My last brew I even had to add lactic to my mash even though there was a fair amount of dark grains. I last had my water analyzed about 2 years ago and it was quite soft. Here are the basics.

Alk. 23
Hardness 17
HCO3 28
Na 17
Ca 5
Mg 1
SO4 (x3) 6
Cl 9

I decided it was time to get a new water analysis. Last week I sent off a sample to Ward and just got it back. HOLY COW!!!

Alk. 203
Hardness 219
HCO3 246
Na 42
Ca 71
Mg 10
SO4 (x3) 15
Cl 66

I called my town water dept. They said they typically mix regional reservoir water with the local town well water at 70%/30%. Lately, they have drawn more from the wells (which have a bit more alkalinity) but these numbers are still way above what they would expect. He said the Na especially was crazy high and they have never seen it that high.

Then a little light bulb went on in my head. I use a Pur faucet filter, mainly because it is supposed to reduce chlorine. It occurred to me that I haven't changed it lately. I started to wonder if that could be the source of my crazy water report even though the little red light on the filter hasn't come on, yet. So here are some questions:

1 - Does anyone know if these filters "max out" and start to release all the stuff they have been filtering?

2 - The filter package says it has "MaxIon technology" and "filters over natural minerals for great taste". Does anyone know what these minerals are? I've tried looking online but no luck.

3 - How would this high alkalinity and other minerals effect fermentation? My latest brew is stuck about 6 points above FG, which hasn't happened in over a year.

The strange thing is that I have been using the faucet filter for several years and never had a problem. The original Ward sample was taken through a filter. However, I think this is the first time that I bought replacement filters with the MaxIon technology.

So, today I am going to take 2 more samples - one filtered and one straight from the tap - and send them to Ward. I'll post an update when I get the results.

 

[mabrungard]

That is tough to work around. However, you now have 2 complete reports. It appears you should obtain hardness and alkalinity test kits so that you can monitor your current water quality and plan accordingly...or buy a RO machine.

 

[philosofool]

That is tough to work around. However, you now have 2 complete reports. It appears you should obtain hardness and alkalinity test kits so that you can monitor your current water quality and plan accordingly...or buy a RO machine.

This seems like good advice to me. I don't yet have a pH meter (it's in the mail) but I have been using a LaMotte test kit for about 6 months and I love it. My municipal water changes a lot and I like to manipulate chlroide and sulfate levels in my beers, so I test before every brew day. The fancy one at Morebeer has a review from me (same user name, philosofool) that probably answers many questions. The big one is probably "Is is worth $109?" which obviously I can't answer for you: it was worth it for me.

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

It appears you should obtain hardness and alkalinity test kits so that you can monitor your current water quality and plan accordingly...or buy a RO machine.

Martin, I was afraid you were going to say that. Two quick questions. Do you have any kits you would recommend? Also, if the new report turns out to be the "new normal", are any of those elements so high as to create problems even after I reduce the alkalinity? In particular, I'm thinking of the Na and maybe the Mg and Cl. It seems like I may need to dilute with RO at the least. Anyway, would any of these new levels create fermentation problems? OK, that was 3 questions

Philosofool, what does the LaMotte kit analyze? Does it give you chloride and sulfate levels or just alkalinity and hardness?

Meanwhile, I'm still trying to figure out if the filter is the real problem. My town water guy said there haven't been any major changes in the water supply for the past 10 years and that much variation didn't sound reasonable to him.

I did send 2 more samples to Wards today - one filtered and one straight from the tap. We'll see what comes up.

Thanks for the input guys.

 

[philosofool]

The LaMotte test covers test of alkalinity, total hardness, calcium hardness, sulfate, and chloride. Magnesium hardness can be calculated directly (=total minus calcium hardness) and 99% of the remaining cat ions are sodium, so you can calculate that. The hardness test are very easy to read, chloride easy, but a little less, and sulfate seems somewhat imprecise--but my sultfate levels are so low it's hard to judge. Precision is 10ppm, except sulfate, which is a little less precise.* Testing all 5 takes me about 20 to 25 minutes. Includes at least fifty total tests. I think it has exactly 50 sulfate tests, but I bet you get a few more of the others.

After two years of tests, about 50 tests for me, I expect to have an idea how my water changes seasonally, so I will probably stop testing every batch, around every two weeks. (I record every test in my beer journal.) I figure it's about $2 a batch and I sort of enjoy the testing.

*If you have very high mineral levels, they are 25ppm. If you are definitely interested in the kit, let me know and I will look up the thresholds where you need to measure at 25ppm precision.

 

[mabrungard]

Lamotte has created a kit that includes tests for most ions important for brewing. They are a good company and they service the water and wastewater industry. Hach is another one. However, their test kits are more pricey than most homebrewers may be willing to spend. For that reason, aquarium test kits can be more affordable in the homebrewing community. Salifert seems to have pretty good kits.

With respect to what you should test, I recommend that the most important are calcium content (aka: calcium hardness) and alkalinity. They are the primary factors affecting mash pH. The rest of the ions are less of concern since they are mainly flavor ions. If you have a set of extreme test results as above, then you can probably use the calcium and alkalinity results to help gauge what the other ion concentrations might be.

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

Thanks guys. This is a huge help. I'll do some research. I'll also report back when I get yesterday's reports back.

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

OK, so this is just wierd. I sent 2 samples on Friday - one through a new filter (2 days old) and one straight from the tap. Just got the results back.

FILTERED

pH 8.5
Alk. 31
Hardness 22
HCO3 37
Na 12
Ca 7
Mg 1
SO4 (x3) 6
Cl 9

TAP (unfiltered)
pH 7.7
Alk. 26
Hardness 22
HCO3 31
Na 11
Ca 7
Mg 1
SO4 (x3) 6
Cl 9

So, there are several possibilities: 1) the filter for the sample I sent 2 weeks ago had maxed out and was flushing out minerals, leading to all those high levels, 2) the filter was somehow defective since I have been having pH (i.e. alkalinity) issues for a couple of months, 3) that sample container was somehow contaminated (highly doubtful since I cleaned and rinsed the container about 10 times), 4) Ward mixed up my sample with another (even more doubtful given lab QA/QC protocols).

Whatever it is, my water seems to be just fine. It was interesting that the "filtered" pH was 8.5 and that all the other samples (including the one from 2013) were 7.7. Anyway, both of these most recent samples are close to each other and to my original analysis of 2 years ago.

This also tells me I really don't need to use my filter for my brewing water. I already use K-meta for possible chlorine/chloramine so it looks like I don't need to spend all that time slowwwllllyyy filling my BK with filtered water.

So, what do you think? Am I missing something? I'm still really curious about the crazy sample but I'm relieved that my water doesn't seem to be as variable as I thought it might be. Any thoughts?

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

Bump. Hope everyone had a good turkey coma.

 

[ajdelange]

I'm still really curious about the crazy sample but I'm relieved that my water doesn't seem to be as variable as I thought it might be. Any thoughts?

I don't see anything too crazy here if you are referring to the difference between the two samples. The differences you see (alkalinity, pH, bicarbonate) all relate to the amount of entrained CO2. Pushing the water through the filter perhaps is disturbing the CO2 level. The other numbers are within measurement precision of most methods;

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

AJ, the "crazy" sample was the second sample in the first post. My water appeared to go from nice, friendly, soft water to really hard water with high Ca, Cl and Na. Based on the two most recent samples (the later post - filtered vs unfiltered), I have concluded that there was most likely something funky with the old filter. The new filter seems to do not much of anything except maybe raise the pH a little. So I am figuring I don't need to bother with the filter any more. Thanks for checking in.