I"m sure there are no issues with your process, but I think you can shave a few grain to glass days off and possibly get a better dry hop as you will be putting them all in at an more dry hop friendly temperature (if you are in fact doing the second round close to cold crash temps). Let us know if you do any further experimenting. I think shortening grain to glass for these types of beers is crucial. My last was 15 days (my fastest ever) and I think I can shave 3 days off of the next batch.
How to make AMAZING IPA
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I usually have mine kegged by day 12 to 14. After that, they sit at room temp and 35psi for a few days 28th the keg hops. By the end of the third week, it's always carbed and tasting good. I usually do 2 dry hop additions still not including the keg hops but I haven't really tried comparing the results. I've just been leaving the beer in a single keg with the hops
I have transferred into a purged keg through the liquid out post though. I really liked how well that worked. Just be sure to have the relief valve locked open.
I have transferred into a purged keg through the liquid out post though. I really liked how well that worked. Just be sure to have the relief valve locked open.
I generally shoot for grain to glass in about 16-18 days I would say. I have pushed it down to 12-15 a few times, but was not as happy with the results. However, that is not to say 12-15 is too fast...... I have been doing lots of different experimenting with hoppy beers this past year, so it could have been a variety of variables impacting that. I think I have my basic procedure, water and recipe where I like it now. I will likely tweak single variables in the future to see if I want to refine my process further.
I suppose on the bright side, in regard to beer "longevity" - even though I am maybe getting to serving a few days later than I could, my IPA's almost never see 4.5-5 weeks old before the keg is gone. Often gone by 4 weeks from brew day - So, they tend to get drunk up while fresh
I will update if I find out anything worth sharing.
I suppose on the bright side, in regard to beer "longevity" - even though I am maybe getting to serving a few days later than I could, my IPA's almost never see 4.5-5 weeks old before the keg is gone. Often gone by 4 weeks from brew day - So, they tend to get drunk up while fresh
I will update if I find out anything worth sharing.
My last beer was crazy. I racked 34 degree beer from the fermenter to the keg on day 15 and hit the kegs with 25 psi CO2. Cold crashing was done at 0.5 psi, so there was a little carbonation in the beer before even getting to the kegs. Anyway, I shook the kegs over the next few hours 10-15 times and we had drinkable beer about 5 hours later. Flavors came together over the next few days, but the hop freshness was unreal. I am going to do this exact thing next time but with a slightly shorter grain to glass.
StopTakingMyUsername
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Just wanted to reiterate stuff I've learned that has been immensely helpful in making top-tier IPAs (in case anyone is following, or finds this thread on Google):
- Simple grist. Two row or pils base (many 2-row doesnt live up to what we want, Rahr is pretty great though). Light amount (3-5%) of C20 or C10, Munich or Vienna if you prefer (we like a little for flavor).
- Trillium uses white wheat for some mouthfeel. If you're going for one of the smoother, more tropical juice bombs, I'd strongly recommend it.
- No 60 min bittering addition to avoid unpleasant, long-lasting, tongue-coating bitterness
- One "flavor/bitter" addition for some substance (We've been doing very light 30 min additions - not sure how much variance you'd get with a 40 or 20). Your tastes may vary.
- Total IBU under 40. Often under 30. Your tastes may vary.
- Late addition (around 10 min - 1-2 oz)
- MASSIVE flameout addition (3 - 4 oz +). Whirlpool (or steep) until temp hits sub 170 F (usually 20-30 mins for us).
- Fermentation: For drier, clean, west coast IPAs - Cali ale, SD Super, or Wyeast equivalent (could use US-05). For juicy, tropical hops - London III.
- Dry hop #1 added on 3rd or 4th day of fermentation (2-3 oz). Let sit 4-5 days.
- Cold crash after complete fermentation, CO2 transfer to CO2 purged keg with second dry hop (2-3 oz). Let sit 4-5 more days.
- Trillium uses tons of citra and galaxy, so if you're looking for something in that vein, start there. For Boneyard/Barley Browns I'm leaning towards Mosaic, Citra, C hops (cascade, centennial, MAYBE light chinook), and Simcoe/Amarillo.
At this point we'd bottle or serve. Seems to be working pretty well. Obviously some room for improvements, but the hop presence, yeast profiles, and body are pretty spot on with where we've been looking for them to be.
Curious about this.
I assume at 35 PSI you could carb at any temp, but CO2 is far more soluble at colder temperatures. My dilemma is how do I carb while dry hopping? Since carb = 40 F or just under, and dry hop = room temp or over?
I've heard Boneyard RPM is a 6 day IPA from grain to keg. Not sure if that's 100% but that is impressive, and with Tony's background in brewing systems efficiency, I wouldn't be surprised.
Would love to learn how to turn an amazing IPA over in 10-12 days even.
- Simple grist. Two row or pils base (many 2-row doesnt live up to what we want, Rahr is pretty great though). Light amount (3-5%) of C20 or C10, Munich or Vienna if you prefer (we like a little for flavor).
- Trillium uses white wheat for some mouthfeel. If you're going for one of the smoother, more tropical juice bombs, I'd strongly recommend it.
- No 60 min bittering addition to avoid unpleasant, long-lasting, tongue-coating bitterness
- One "flavor/bitter" addition for some substance (We've been doing very light 30 min additions - not sure how much variance you'd get with a 40 or 20). Your tastes may vary.
- Total IBU under 40. Often under 30. Your tastes may vary.
- Late addition (around 10 min - 1-2 oz)
- MASSIVE flameout addition (3 - 4 oz +). Whirlpool (or steep) until temp hits sub 170 F (usually 20-30 mins for us).
- Fermentation: For drier, clean, west coast IPAs - Cali ale, SD Super, or Wyeast equivalent (could use US-05). For juicy, tropical hops - London III.
- Dry hop #1 added on 3rd or 4th day of fermentation (2-3 oz). Let sit 4-5 days.
- Cold crash after complete fermentation, CO2 transfer to CO2 purged keg with second dry hop (2-3 oz). Let sit 4-5 more days.
- Trillium uses tons of citra and galaxy, so if you're looking for something in that vein, start there. For Boneyard/Barley Browns I'm leaning towards Mosaic, Citra, C hops (cascade, centennial, MAYBE light chinook), and Simcoe/Amarillo.
At this point we'd bottle or serve. Seems to be working pretty well. Obviously some room for improvements, but the hop presence, yeast profiles, and body are pretty spot on with where we've been looking for them to be.
Curious about this.
I assume at 35 PSI you could carb at any temp, but CO2 is far more soluble at colder temperatures. My dilemma is how do I carb while dry hopping? Since carb = 40 F or just under, and dry hop = room temp or over?
I've heard Boneyard RPM is a 6 day IPA from grain to keg. Not sure if that's 100% but that is impressive, and with Tony's background in brewing systems efficiency, I wouldn't be surprised.
Would love to learn how to turn an amazing IPA over in 10-12 days even.
not sure why my phone autocorrected "with" into "28th" . why is that even in its predictive dictionary. How often do you use that word?
I have a few CO2 tanks. I keep one hooked up to my kegerator at serving pressure, and the other at room temperature for purging and stuff. Its stays hooked up to kegs waiting in line for the kegerator at 35psi so they get at least halfway carbed by the time they go in the kegerator. During this time, they are sitting on the keg hops
I have a few CO2 tanks. I keep one hooked up to my kegerator at serving pressure, and the other at room temperature for purging and stuff. Its stays hooked up to kegs waiting in line for the kegerator at 35psi so they get at least halfway carbed by the time they go in the kegerator. During this time, they are sitting on the keg hops
mbbransc
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I think we're to the point now, we can begin talking about dry hop re-circulations. Is anyone here doing it? It's the next step I plan to take. According to Peter Wolfe's thesis from Oregon St, you can extract up to 40% more hop oils via re-circulation, and it's all done in about 24 hours.
source: http://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1957/34093/Wolfe_thesis.pdf
I know many of these newer hop bombs are using some forms of re-circulation. Question is, how can homebrewer apply that?
source: http://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1957/34093/Wolfe_thesis.pdf
I know many of these newer hop bombs are using some forms of re-circulation. Question is, how can homebrewer apply that?
Calichusetts
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DIY torpedo. Keg + pump + hop back/rocket. There is a thread out there on this and it has been done
It's probably easier to just add more dry hops to get the same effect. This is probably more suitable to commercial brewers who could potentially save a lot of money by using less hops. Hops are expensive, but on our level they're not crazy expensive.
StopTakingMyUsername
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I'm sure it's feasible. Essentially, you're just running wort through another vessel that holds the hops, and then it is pumped back into the kettle (which then goes back to the vessel, etc etc etc)?
Would you do that *IN ADDITION* to a whirlpool/steep addition? Or in place of (for better extraction of oils)?
Do you have a link by any chance? Or remember the name so I could search?
I'm really interested in this now
Many will use CO2 blown through the bottom of the conical to blow the hops back up into solution rather than doing a continuous circulation on the vessel. Kimmich from the Alchemist says to do it under his recipes provided into the IPA book from Mitch Steele.
Calichusetts
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I'm sure it's feasible. Essentially, you're just running wort through another vessel that holds the hops, and then it is pumped back into the kettle (which then goes back to the vessel, etc etc etc)?
Would you do that *IN ADDITION* to a whirlpool/steep addition? Or in place of (for better extraction of oils)?
Do you have a link by any chance? Or remember the name so I could search?
I'm really interested in this now
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=271547
This is a common practice among several breweries to keep their beer under constant pressure while avoiding introducing oxygen during dry hopping. Its also easier to manage when you consider the volume of beer being dry hopped in a commercial setting.
mbbransc
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No, no torpedo. Dry hop in fermenter and attach a pump to recirculate...
Fermenter -> pump -> back to fermenter
Yes, in addition to whirlpool.
Several posts about it on probrewer.com. Never really tackled on a homebrew scale because to make it most practical, you'll need a conical. But I'm thinking I'm going to try it.
Fermenter -> pump -> back to fermenter
Yes, in addition to whirlpool.
Several posts about it on probrewer.com. Never really tackled on a homebrew scale because to make it most practical, you'll need a conical. But I'm thinking I'm going to try it.
mbbransc
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From what I've heard, blowing CO2 through the bottom will release aromatics from solution and have a detrimental effect on aroma. UNLESS you have a sealed vessel. Problem is most homebrew sized conicals can only take ~4psi.
Plenty do it without capping. Potentially blowing off some compounds but the gains are in excess of the losses.
http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/post2189/
I am sure its that one where they talk about it with the brewer
Plus also on the (fancier) home brew scale
http://www.metabrewing.com/2013/02/recirculating-dry-hops-extract-more.html
I am sure its that one where they talk about it with the brewer
Plus also on the (fancier) home brew scale
http://www.metabrewing.com/2013/02/recirculating-dry-hops-extract-more.html
mbbransc
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Yep, that metabrewing article is what I plan to try. Anyone here tried anything similar? Success? Failure? No difference?
gotbags-10
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Just purchased my first conical. I've also heard about purging the conical with co2 to stir the dry hops. I would love to try this. Is there a thread talking about this anywhere? Im assuming it's done through the dump valve since that's where the hops settle. Wouldn't opening the valve attached to a co2 line flood it seeing as we can only put up to 4 psi through a conical?
mbbransc
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Poster on reddit (and probably here) tied together and summed up a bunch of reports/info on dry hopping.
http://scottjanish.com/examination-...s-for-achieving-maximum-hop-aroma-and-flavor/
http://scottjanish.com/examination-...s-for-achieving-maximum-hop-aroma-and-flavor/
StopTakingMyUsername
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Anyone have any recommendations for avoid the dry hop bag blocking the tube in a sanke keg?
We've been having a hell of a time transferring the beer due to the bag getting stuck. I usually just weigh it down with a stainless steel fitting, but once we start trying to transfer the beer it goes straight to the tube of the spear, and it's just blocking everything off.
Ultimately, we end up opening the keg and racking manually (which defeats the purpose of a closed transfer)
Thoughts? Suggestions?
(we use sankes, not cornys)
We've been having a hell of a time transferring the beer due to the bag getting stuck. I usually just weigh it down with a stainless steel fitting, but once we start trying to transfer the beer it goes straight to the tube of the spear, and it's just blocking everything off.
Ultimately, we end up opening the keg and racking manually (which defeats the purpose of a closed transfer)
Thoughts? Suggestions?
(we use sankes, not cornys)
Not sure since you use a sanke..... could you weigh down the hop bag AND also tie it to some dental floss so it can only sink 2/3 of the way down the keg?? Not sure if that is possible with sanke set up. Also, have heard of people using a piece of stainless steel brillo type pad (boil it or star san to sanitize) around the end of dip tubes. Or, some sort of stainless mesh sleeve around dip tube....Again..... not sure if that is feasible with your set up.
losMythos
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How do you get a bag of Hops in a sanke Keg? Just curious. Do they make sanke kegs with a removable lid? Or do you take the whole dip tube assembly apart?
mbbransc
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^ I was curious of that too. I try to remember tying my hop sack off in the keg (corney) but I've forgotten occasionally. Only once that I recall it became an issue. I didn't have it weighed down though so maybe it usually sits on the surface.
losMythos
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Yeah I put a small pipe clamp on the PRV post and just hang a hop bag from it using the pull string on the bag. cinched up it hangs about 3/4 of the way down the keg. I have never used pellets in the keg. 2oz of leaf swell up and never become an issue at the dip tube..i could see pellets becoming an issue even in a bag.
StopTakingMyUsername
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That's what I'm starting to think. Maybe I could use dental floss and tie it to the rubber O-Ring on the spear? That way it'd hang down in the beer, but not low enough to get stuck on the tube.
It'd be really interesting to see how that'd fit in there though
I don't know if a screen on the bottom of the tube would matter here - it might work. But I think it's more of an issue of the bag itself getting sucked against the bottom of the keg and blocking any liquid from getting up the tube.
I'm gunna experiment with it today and try to figure it out.
Same way as a corny, honestly...
I put the hops in a muslin bag with a SS fitting to weigh it down, kinda squeeze them around into more of a length-wise shape (instead of just a blob circle). Feed that in to the opening of the keg (spear removed).
Put the spear back in, seal, coupler on, CO2 purge, then transfer beer over.
losMythos
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Interesting.. Not sure if you use leaf or pellet but I've had good luck with leaf although I've had trouble getting the hops I want in leaf....maybe a fine mesh SS cylinder with cap that is slightly smaller than the opening that can be placed in and put to the side of the spear...Just a thought. Good Luck!
StopTakingMyUsername
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Two more questions I was curious about:
1) what were everyone's experiences using different hops for 60 min bittering?
(Not ctz/Columbus, but ones like chinook, ahtanum, fuggles?)
2) experiences scaling a recipe up to 15 gal + ?
How to calculate amount of hops in beersmith (or other software)?
1) what were everyone's experiences using different hops for 60 min bittering?
(Not ctz/Columbus, but ones like chinook, ahtanum, fuggles?)
2) experiences scaling a recipe up to 15 gal + ?
How to calculate amount of hops in beersmith (or other software)?
mbbransc
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Personally, I hate chinook as a bittering charge. It's uber harsh to my palate. I generally stick to a clean hop (warrior, specifically), although my IPA I kegged on Sunday I used Columbus.
basically, there are two main things to consider IMO when looking at bittering hops. The first thing is the alpha acid level. A good bittering hop will usualy have 10% or more. Like, there wouldnt be much point in using +5oz of saaz where 1oz of columbus could get you the IBUs you need. The second thing to consider is the oil makeup of the hop. Chinook is notorious for having a v ery "harsh" bitterness due to its high % of cohumelone. Comparatively, magnum and apollo are pretty low and give a "smoother" bitterness. So 50IBUs of chinook will taste a bit more aggressive than 50IBUs of apollo or magnum. Thats the theory at least
Ahtanum and fuggles are pointless to bitter with IMO, since their bittering potential is so low. You absolutely wont be able to taste any actual flavor from the bittering hops, so I wouldnt use anything like citra or el dorado for bittering, even though they have decent bittering potential
I have used fuggles several times for bittering in a Stong/Old English Ale and it has worked well. I don't think it would work for an IPA, though. Not high enough aa% and takes awhile to mellow out with the large amount you have to use.
My favorite bittering hop is Magnum. Plenty of AA so you don't need to use a ton of it. Provides a fairly clean bitterness that will work in virtually any style of beer that requires a 60 min addition.
BreezyBrew
IPA is my spirit animal
I have used Warrior, Columbus and Cascade all for bittering where the beers turned out great. Much more American tasting than Magnum. I think water profile has the biggest taste effect on bittering charge. YMMV.
StopTakingMyUsername
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Me too. A local brewer uses Chinook as the bittering charge in ALL his IPAs. Really distinct, almost rye-spicy flavor.
I think it does have a place in IPAs though, a lot of really good ones use it. Maybe a light 30 minute addition for just a little bit of bite?
I agree. I think a lot of people are using the bittering charge hops just to hit a specific IBU number, hence the need for higher AA hops. There certainly wouldn't be a point using MORE 5% AA hops to hit 100 IBU when you could use substantially less 14% AA hops to hit 100 IBU.
Theoretically though, Citra meets the requirements for a double-digit AA level for bittering, yet it (IMO) makes a terrible bittering hop due to the weird astringent flavors it gives off in a 60 min boil.
For our brewing, I couldn't care what the IBU are (I use it as a general gauge for "is this going to be grossly unpalatable with a lingering bitter").
I care mostly about the flavor produced.
I really don't like Columbus/warrior, as it's always lend itself to a really grassy, dirty, earthy, long-lasting bitterness that sticks to the tongue.
The reason I ask about fuggles is because I read that Boneyard Notorious only uses Fuggles, Mosaic, and Citra. I can't imagine they're using the fuggles for whirlpool or dry hop additions (maybe).
I'm pretty sure they are huge fans of FWH techniques as well - so I'd assume that hop bill is a FWH of fuggle, followed by ridiculous amounts of Mosaic and just enough Citra for a juicy punch - all added in late, whirlpool, and dry hop
Thoughts?
Well, if you're targeting a specific IBU number, then it won't make sense from a efficiency perspective.
What about for a very light flavor profile?
I'm more interested in targeting flavor than a set number of IBU (Although I may be wrong in doing so)
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