How to get less alcohol from extract brews

[CrustyBrau]

Opposite of the question that was asked earlier, sort of.

I'm thinking about making an IPA type thing with good hoppiness, but somewhere around 4% ABV. This would be for something to take camping, etc., in plastic bottles, so we can enjoy a good tasty beer but without so much of the happy effects when they're not so welcome, and without glass bottles to worry about breaking. We could just take cheap canned commercial beer, but as a home brewer, I reject that possibility out of hand.

My question is, how to balance the hops with the lower ABV? Does lower alcohol accentuate the IBU, or would I want to lower the IBU as well?

 

[Yooper]

Believe it or not, you're asking one of the hardest questions there is! I've been trying for several years to do the exact same thing. I want all of the flavor of an IPA, but with 5% ABV or less. It's harder than you'd imagine. In order to "hold up" all of those hops, you need a lot of malt. Of course, a lot of malt = a lot of alcohol.

I have one dryhopping now that is about 5.25%. It's very good, but it's definitely NOT an IPA any more. It's a hoppy APA, though. It seems like about 6% is the lowest I can go and still consider it an IPA. Once you lose some of the malt backbone (reducing the IBUs, too for balance- or not!) it just isn't an IPA.

If you DO figure it out, please share your findings with the rest of us. I'd really appreciate some tips.

 

[DrinkNoH2O]

I second what Yooper said - that's a tough thing to do.

One thing I would highly recommend is dry hopping. Brew up a balanced pale ale (an easy guesstimation for balancing a hoppy style beer is to make the last 2 digits of the OG equal the IBUs, such as SG: 1.040, IBUs: 40) They dry hop it with a few ounces of your favorite hops (I love Simcoe/Amarillo combo). The dry hopping will impart a lot of hop aroma but not make the beer overly bitter.

Also be sure to steep in some Crystal malt to impart some residual sugars that won't ferment out fully to give the beer a little backbone.

 

[CrustyBrau]

I R nooby! I may not be up to the task

Sounds like a good excuse to get setup for 1 gallon "test" batches.

 

[KCBrewer]

I'm still working up to all grain, so feel free to shut me up if I'm way off here, but can't you mash at higher temps to produce less fermentables? Like I said, I'm still in the research phase of all grain, so I don't know much about percentages of fermentables/non-fermentables based on mash temps.

Is there a reason you couldn't try mashing at a higher temp to produce less fermetables, giving more malt flavors and less alcohol, so you could use more hops?

 

[DrinkNoH2O]

1 gallon batches are tough on a noobie as there is not much margin for error.

Maybe try a 5 gallon batch of something like this:


Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.049 SG
Estimated Color: 8.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 39.5 IBU
Estimated ABV: 4.4%
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
5 lbs 8.0 oz Light Dry Extract
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L
4.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L
0.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (60 min)
0.50 oz Amarillo [8.50 %] (60 min)
0.50 oz Amarillo [8.50 %] (5 min)
0.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (5 min)

1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (Dry Hop 7 days)
1.00 oz Amarillo [8.50 %] (Dry Hop 7 days)

1 pkg. clean dry ale yeast


Basically just steep all of the Crystal malt in about a gallon of water for about 30 minutes at 155 degrees. Then remove the grains leaving the tea behind, full up as much water as you can fit in your pot without boiling over, add the dry malt extract and bring to a boil. Add the 60 minute hop additions and with 5 minutes left add the last additions. Cool and pitch a dry ale yeast.

Once fermentation is complete, throw an ounce each of Simcoe and Amarillo directly into the fermenter and let it sit another 7 days. Then rack and bottle.

 

[KCBrewer]

just reread the title, duh.

 

[CrustyBrau]

1 gallon batches are tough on a noobie as there is not much margin for error.

Does this have to do with measuring smaller quantities of ingredients to a higher accuracy?

 

[JNye]

Does this have to do with measuring smaller quantities of ingredients to a higher accuracy?

he may be thinking AG, in which case temps would be difficult to nail and maintain. As an extract brewer 1 gallon batches should be a cinch.

 

[DrinkNoH2O]

I was thinking extract. You're boiling a really small amount of liquid so it's easy to scorch the extract or boil off too much volume.

Also if you let the temp get too high during fermentation it will contribute off flavors more quickly due to the small volume and shorter fermentation time.

And overall IMO it's just a waste of time. You can brew 5 gallons in about the same time. Lots of work for little output.

 

[CrustyBrau]

Also if you let the temp get too high during fermentation it will contribute off flavors more quickly due to the small volume and shorter fermentation time.

I figure for test batches, off flavors won't be a big deal. The goal is to achieve a good hop/malt balance, and then switch to larger batches. Even with some off flavors, you should be able to get a pretty good idea how the basic balance is doing. If I make an undrinkable 5/6 gallon batch, that's a lot of waste. An undrinkable 1 gallon batch, meh, no biggy.

And overall IMO it's just a waste of time. You can brew 5 gallons in about the same time. Lots of work for little output.

But OTOH, I can have several small cheap fermenters going at one time. I only have one 7 gallon conical, one 10 gallon kettle, and one giant propane cooker, and that's the way it's going to stay for awhile On my stove, I could easily brew two batches at once in ordinary cookware that's already in the kitchen, or that is at least quite cheap to buy.

 

[CrustyBrau]

In order to "hold up" all of those hops, you need a lot of malt. Of course, a lot of malt = a lot of alcohol.

This confuses me a little. Couldn't you just add a bit more light crystal malt to recover the sweetness?

 

[Yooper]

I'm still working up to all grain, so feel free to shut me up if I'm way off here, but can't you mash at higher temps to produce less fermentables? Like I said, I'm still in the research phase of all grain, so I don't know much about percentages of fermentables/non-fermentables based on mash temps.

Is there a reason you couldn't try mashing at a higher temp to produce less fermetables, giving more malt flavors and less alcohol, so you could use more hops?

Oh, extract or AG doesn't matter- you're not out of place at all here. We're in the "beginners forum" here after all- and in this, I'm a total noob.

Sure, you could mash at a higher temp, or add more crystal. BUT- drinkable IPAs aren't cloyingly sweet or underattenuated! I don't use ANY crystal in my IPAs usually. You can use some- oh, 5-10% or so, but I don't like sweetness in my IPAs and would find it obnoxious in a low OG IPA with a high FG.

This confuses me a little. Couldn't you just add a bit more light crystal malt to recover the sweetness?

Ah- that's the issue. There isn't much sweetness in a good IPA, in my opinion. There's the problem. In an APA, some sweetness approaching an amber with enough hoppiness to call it an APA may be good. But you want this beer to be drinkable, not cloyingly sweet, with a great hoppy flavor and enough malt to balance it. It's been the biggest challenge of my brewing career so far!

 

[CrustyBrau]

Ah- that's the issue. There isn't much sweetness in a good IPA, in my opinion. There's the problem. In an APA, some sweetness approaching an amber with enough hoppiness to call it an APA may be good. But you want this beer to be drinkable, not cloyingly sweet, with a great hoppy flavor and enough malt to balance it. It's been the biggest challenge of my brewing career so far!

This may be a simple difference in taste then. I actually think an IPA is better with fairly robust malt backdrop to the hops.

Then again, trying to describe the finer points of one's favorite beer on a web board is probly folly :cross:

 

[david_42]

Well, no. You can make a 4% Pale with a lot of hop flavor and aroma, but by definition, it isn't an IPA and as Yooper points out, it will lack the malt to necessary to balance the IBUs of an IPA.

Using small amounts of many different hops has given me the best results. Also, steeping some rye broadens the malt profile. My Bent Rod Rye recipe started as a way to use up the random 1/4 and 1/2 oz leftovers. It is more bitter than the ABV would normally call for, but the rye helps with that. Still, it isn't in the IPA range.

 

[Yooper]

This may be a simple difference in taste then. I actually think an IPA is better with fairly robust malt backdrop to the hops.

Oh, I agree! That's the point I was trying to make. As David_42 says, it might be a great beer with less malt, but it won't be an IPA.

My point was actually just what you said- a fairly robust malt backdrop to support the hops. In my opinion, you can't get that by throwing some extra crystal malt. It'll be too sweet, not with a good malt backbone.

One thing I've done lately is lower the base grain bill and add some aromatic malt or biscuit malt in a small quantity. (Extra brewers can do that too). It gives some malt support behind the hops. It's still not a true copy of an IPA, but it's not bad.

 

[King of Cascade]

When making my Scottish 70/- My Starting OG is 1.038 and Final is 1.014. I mash high (156 degrees) and use a low attenuation yeast (wyeast 1968) I also use a lot of crystal malt. %ADF is low around 62.5% with 3.15ABV and it doesn’t taste cloying or sweet actually the final gravity is the same as my full strength IPA. The Scottish has a nice malt presence and body and is not watery at all. I think people get confused thinking if they don’t get a certain % attenuation then the beer is cloying but this is not true with beers that have low OG. I think you can take this approach and hop the hell out of it.

OK now your all gave me a project…I will be making this next week and I will report back with the results.

 

[King of Cascade]

Also...
OP said “IPA Type” with 4% ABV
According to BJCP guidelines IPA ABV is 5.5% - 7.5% even American Pale Ale is 4.5% - 6.2% so I think OP doesn’t care about guidelines just wants a hoppy low abv beer.

 

[tkirk]

My reply would be the yeast dictates the accentuation of either hops or malt. Some yeast accentuate hops, while others accentuate malt. As far as should you lower the hops for a lower ABV, definitely. The malt and hops should balance each other out. If you want a maltier beer, (less alcohol) use an English style strain of yeast, Safale 04, for example. If you want a cleaner, dryer beer with more alcohol and less malty taste, go with an American or Chico yeast, Safale 05. The English strains leave more residual malt, while the American strains ferment more completely leaving more alcohol and less malty taste. Good examples of English pale ale is Bass beer, very malty on the palate. Sierra Nevada pale ale is an American pale ale with a very clean hoppy taste. Good Brewing brother