Saison How Rye I Am (Rye Saison) - 2011 - 1st Place Best of Show - HBT Comp

[slbradley01]

[QUOTE="Muchacho" Hopefully we wont drink it up before it hits its prime![/QUOTE]

My exact problem......this beer keeps getting better!!

 

[HopheadNJ]

Heating up my strike water for this as we speak. Looking forward to this one..

 

[Oophaga]

Bottled my take on the Rye Saison on Friday. I am shocked by this yeast, it was my first time ever using it. The starting gravity was 1.072 and finished at....1.003. Amazing. I cannot exaggerate the amazing mouth-feel in this beer despite the extreme final gravity. It has as much body as many stouts, yet still dry and refreshing. Out of all my brews, this is my favorite tasting uncarbed and warm. I never had one I liked in that state, always read people saying it was good, but so far this is my first time experiencing that. Once carbed and ready I'll snap some pictures and post them up here.

Thanks for the fantastic recipe!

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

This is an awesome recipe. We're queuing up 2 Saison's and two Flemish Red's for the next two weeks worth of additional trials and now it'll definitely be 3 Saison's

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Hope this isn't too heretical but we were going to use Sorachi Ace on the Dupont but may also use it on this one. Seems like a fit. Anyone else use Sorachi Ace in Saison's?

 

[chalkdust41485]

Hope this isn't too heretical but we were going to use Sorachi Ace on the Dupont but may also use it on this one. Seems like a fit. Anyone else use Sorachi Ace in Saison's?

I just used Sorachi Ace for the first time in a saison. Its the Cottage House Saison recipe with a pound of rye (inspired by this thread). I was amazed at how much they smelled like lemon and dill. It made me want to use them again. Very interesting hop.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

I just used Sorachi Ace for the first time in a saison. Its the Cottage House Saison recipe with a pound of rye (inspired by this thread). I was amazed at how much they smelled like lemon and dill. It made me want to use them again. Very interesting hop.

Thanks for the insight. We are decided then to trial the Sorachi Ace! It is an unusually difficult hop to get for some reason. Could not find it at all this year and then finally found a 1lb bag from HopUnion in October. We'll be using this a lot in the coming weeks.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Seems to be a very flexible adjunct variation on this recipe but with many wining competitions. The one with D-180 Candi Syrup looks stout-like in appearance and the one with D-45 looks like a Flemish Red almost, (based on the pics as best as can be seen).

Unless otherwise bumped we're going with the more traditional blonde or golden Candi Syrup, (Simplicity and or Golden), Pils and Rye, and using the Saison beast yeast (Wyeast 3711).

Still undecided on hop formulation whether to use Sorachi Ace or Nelson Sauvin. Any experience on using either of these with Rye Malt?

 

[chalkdust41485]

Seems to be a very flexible adjunct variation on this recipe but with many wining competitions. The one with D-180 Candi Syrup looks stout-like in appearance and the one with D-45 looks like a Flemish Red almost, (based on the pics as best as can be seen).

Unless otherwise bumped we're going with the more traditional blonde or golden Candi Syrup, (Simplicity and or Golden), Pils and Rye, and using the Saison beast yeast (Wyeast 3711).

Still undecided on hop formulation whether to use Sorachi Ace or Nelson Sauvin. Any experience on using either of these with Rye Malt?

Just got mine carbed after 2 days with burst carb in the keg and I can say that I could use a little more rye in the beer. I used 1 lb in mine. Kinda an inspired Cottage House saison with a little rye. I used Sorachi Ace on mine and I think it did very well with the rye malt and this yeast. Even for the 80's, I feel like I could have used more rye. This yeast does seem to overshadow little adjustments in the grist...

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Just got mine carbed after 2 days with burst carb in the keg and I can say that I could use a little more rye in the beer. I used 1 lb in mine. Kinda an inspired Cottage House saison with a little rye. I used Sorachi Ace on mine and I think it did very well with the rye malt and this yeast. Even for the 80's, I feel like I could have used more rye. This yeast does seem to overshadow little adjustments in the grist...

Would you push on to 18 oz of Rye?

 

[chalkdust41485]

Would you push on to 18 oz of Rye?

That should be good. 2 pounds wouldn't hurt either.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

This is our 5.25 gallon conversion. We're going to run with usurpers26 percentages with a couple of bumps on adjunct and hops. We love 3711 and the combo of funky fruit and a dry finish so we're under-pitching at minus 12% to lend a slight contrast to the Nelson Sauvin. If this is half as good as it looks it'll be a great Saison!

5.25 Gallon Batch

OG: 1.058
FG: 1.008

FERMENTABLES
8.5 lbs Dingeman's Pils
3.0 lbs Weyermann Rye Malt
0.6 lbs D-180 Candi Syrup, Inc.

HOPS (25 IBU's - Tinseth)
0.5 oz. Nelson Sauvin 60 min
0.5 oz. Nelson Sauvin 10 min

PITCH
Wyeast 3711 - (224 Billion - 12% underpitch)

Ramp down 72F to 63F over 7 days. Rack off at 60F for 14 days.

 

[dancemyth]

This is our 5.25 gallon conversion. We're going to run with usurpers26 percentages with a couple of bumps on adjunct and hops. We love 3711 and the combo of funky fruit and a dry finish so we're under-pitching at minus 12% to lend a slight contrast to the Nelson Sauvin. If this is half as good as it looks it'll be a great Saison!

5.25 Gallon Batch

OG: 1.058
FG: 1.008

FERMENTABLES
8.5 lbs Dingeman's Pils
3.0 lbs Weyermann Rye Malt
0.6 lbs D-180 Candi Syrup, Inc.

HOPS (25 IBU's - Tinseth)
0.5 oz. Nelson Sauvin 60 min
0.5 oz. Nelson Sauvin 10 min

PITCH
Wyeast 3711 - (224 Billion - 12% underpitch)

Ramp down 72F to 63F over 7 days. Rack off at 60F for 14 days.

CSI, please let us know how this turns out with the Nelson Sauvignon hops. I'm intrigued with this recipe.

I have a question for you. You are decreasing your fermentation temp over time. I noticed this approach on your posted recipes on your website as well. Most brewers recommend raising temps to minimize off-flavors early on and help the yeast clean up later on. I would love to understand your fermentation philosophy and experience. This doesn't appear to be a belgian-only strategy for you.
Thanks.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

CSI, please let us know how this turns out with the Nelson Sauvignon hops. I'm intrigued with this recipe.

I have a question for you. You are decreasing your fermentation temp over time. I noticed this approach on your posted recipes on your website as well. Most brewers recommend raising temps to minimize off-flavors early on and help the yeast clean up later on. I would love to understand your fermentation philosophy and experience. This doesn't appear to be a belgian-only strategy for you.
Thanks.

I will. The Rye Saison should be ready in 3-4 weeks.

We never could quite get the blend of dry spice and fruit in the Saison Dupont until we reversed the ramping. We changed the temp routine based on advice from a craft brewer who specializes in saison. It worked very well in our opinion. No fusels and the ester/phenol profile was near perfect. I am definitely now a fan of the method but only on saison yeast.

 

[davidgsmit]

Just an fyi; Beersmith does indeed add the sugar in to your pre-boil gravity, but you can change the sugar addition to "after boil" which will take it out of the pre-boil, but leave it added to the post boil.
@70% this comes out to about 1.042 pre and 1.57 post.
Tastes great coming out of the kettle! Added some acidulated malt as well as a 1/2 oz of willamette at 5min over a 10gal batch to add a bit of depth to the final product. Also used half amber, half dark sugar to keep the color in line with a traditional Saison. So far it's lighter than Beersmith predicted which is a good thing to me.
Under pitched by about 30% (or so the math works out) and will let the 3711 ramp up on it's own to about 71. I hear it helps smooth out the esters if you do it that way...

Thanks for the recipe! Will update once it's done!

 

[tonymark]

Brewed this up a 1.5 weeks ago OG: 1.054. 1.75 liter starter for 11 gallons. After 6 days at around 70 F it had only dropped 22 points. Is this typical for 3711?

 

[davidgsmit]

Not an expert on this yeast but i can tell you it goes and goes. My batch is five weeks and at three weeks i was down to 1.004, ended up at 1.001 though at the five week mark. Kept it on the yest the entire time as my wife was out of town and i was solo dad for the entire five weeks, would have pulled it after three otherwise. Taste great though!
Did you have a day or two lag? It does seem you may be a bit behind shedule to me but keep her warm and check in another week. If you're not close by then you may want to rouse it and bump another degree or two and check it every other day. Stressing this yeast isnt a bad thing as long as you get it to your target.

Keep us posted!

 

[davidgsmit]

How often is it bubling btw? Should be bubbling pretty steady at this point still. Mine was still putting out bubbles after three weeks more than once a min.

 

[tonymark]

Didn't have a delay, but I am getting ~11 bubbles/min, which doesn't really mean much. I check again at 2 week mark.

 

[fosaisu]

Just brewed 11 gallon PM version. For better or worse had similar efficiency to the OP, 1.058 OG, but this yeast took right off and is bubbling away vigorously. Really looking to trying this one out!

Here was our recipe:

Partial Mash: 5.8 lb Rye Malt, 1 lb Pilsner Malt, 12.25 qts (1.8 qt/lb grain) at 152° for 60 mins
(sparged with 10 min. rinse at 170° in main brew pot)

Boil:
- 11.5 lb Pilsner LME added up front.
- 3 oz Styrian Golding (3.4% AA) at 60 min.
- 1.3lb Turbinado Sugar at 10 min.

 

[davidgsmit]

Excellent recipe! Thanks

Brewed 10 gallons of this. One keg stopped at 1.003, the other is slightly dryer at 1.002. I prefer the dryer of the two and feel it's better to style, but both are great!
Next time I may knock the rye down just a tad, but that said this is still the most positively reviewed beer I've brewed so far. Even the BMC cult seems to like it! Also got a big compliment from a co-brewer of mine who's known in our home brew club for winning medals in this style on a regular basis.

Cheers!

 

[yyvjpv]

Sounds great, I'm still new at this though, so its going into my "to be made" file for when I am a little more comfortable outside my partial mash zone. Thanks for sharing it!

 

[ArthurDigbySellers]

My original plan was to brew this at the beginning of summer but of course time got away from me...and then my kegging supplies began coming together so I decided to wait until I had that completed...

So now I have 5.5 gallons in the fermenter as of Monday afternoon and that 3711 is going ballistic on it. I've never seen something ferment like this! My blowout tube is a constant stream of bubbles that doesn't seem to ever want to stop. I am so pumped to get this into my keg and pour my first draft beer.

 

[Nico93]

thanks! i'm going to brew it the next month

 

[millhouse9]

I think I'm going to try something similar to this recipe, but I'm going to use The Yeast Bay's Saison Blend instead of 3711. It's a monster attenuator as well, I brewed a 1.065 pumpkin saison with it last Saturday and last night it was already down to 1.008. Cheers!

 

[ArthurDigbySellers]

I kegged my batch about a week ago and while it is still a little flat, it is super tasty and the creamy mouthfeel is unreal. I can't wait until it is properly carbed up so I can enjoy it with proper carbonation.

 

[Nico93]

brewed today, had a lot of problem during the mash due to the rye (i think) even if i increased the percentage of rice hulls! mashed very low and add some sugar to compensate the terrible efficiency!

i think i'll have a very very high attenuation! i hope in a great beer!

thanks!

 

[makellr]

This recipe has fascinated me since I first saw it. Now I'm ready to go. Planning two changes though.
1) This will get fermented on a big yeast cake from a prior batch, so some of the esters from underpitching may go missing
2) This will get a slightly more aggressive hopping with all Nelson Sauvin. Based on the tastes I've had of this hop, It should be a great match for this grainbill.

 

[orangehero]

Don't pitch on a yeast cake you will be grossly overpitching. Calculate how much you need using yeastcalc.co and measure it out.

 

[Nico93]

og: 1064 fg 1000

this yeast is a beast!