Saison How Rye I Am (Rye Saison) - 2011 - 1st Place Best of Show - HBT Comp

[KCBigDog]

Just ordered the grain bill, and will be brewing this soon. Looks very interesting.

I always try to make a beer I can't buy, and this seems to fit that profile.

 

[Native302]

Brewed this on Friday

9 lbs pilsner
4 lbs rye
1 oz Stiryan goldings first wort hop
1 oz Stiryan goldings 60 min
1 oz Stiryan goldings @ flame out
1 lb D-180 in fermenter
2 L starter 3711

Mashed at 148 for 90 min
90 min boil
Og 1.066 with 5.5 gallons in fermenter

Needed blow off tube after 4 hours

The taste of the pils and rye is amazing. Rye is now my secret grain for all recipes!

 

[makisupa]

I brewed this on May 2nd and it's just starting to carb now. I'll post some photos tomorrow. I'm wondering if the original poster can offer some tasting notes. I'm not exactly sure what to expect from this beer but my initial comment is it seems very well-balanced. I'm not getting explosive flavors of citrus although citrus is there. It's my first rye beer so I'm not exactly sure what to expect from the rye. One other note, I used jaggery instead of candi sugar.

 

[usurpers26]

The citrus won't be explosive. It has nice citrus notes throughout - the initial aroma is a mix of citrus, spice and that unique saison-yeasty aroma.

Rye is by far one of my favorites. The rye and the WY3711 pair up perfectly in this beer and to some extent the yeast profile masks the extremely high amount of rye that we used. Or as you put it, it is very well balanced.

The rye will usually lend itself to giving a sharp, somewhat spicy flavor up front. But then it blends pretty quickly with the yeast profile into that smooth, creamy (mouthfeel), slightly sweet and citrusy middle, finally finishing nice and dry like a saison should

If you really want to notice the rye, pour out a "normal" saison/farmhouse and you will notice how delicate the flavor is compared to this one.

I brewed this on May 2nd and it's just starting to carb now. I'll post some photos tomorrow. I'm wondering if the original poster can offer some tasting notes. I'm not exactly sure what to expect from this beer but my initial comment is it seems very well-balanced. I'm not getting explosive flavors of citrus although citrus is there. It's my first rye beer so I'm not exactly sure what to expect from the rye. One other note, I used jaggery instead of candi sugar.

 

[KCBigDog]

Think it would be a problem to not have a starter on a 5 gallon batch? I want to brew it tomorrow...

 

[makisupa]

^^^ Thanks usurpers26 ^^^

I appreciate the detailed response. This beer is so well-balanced and drinkable. I made your recipe and aside from changing the candi sugar to jaggery, everything was right on — even the numbers. But there was one thing... I dumped the wort onto a previously used 3711 yeast cake. Here's a photo of How Rye I Am:

Your recipe used a second generation 3711 yeast cake that wasn't washed or treated. The yeast cake was developed from another farmhouse ale (pale malt, flaked wheat and flaked oats with ginger, grains of paradise, and orange zest). Here's How Rye I Am next to Brewshed Ale:

Now you know where I'm coming from. It's fun to put these two beer side-by-side. Youra is so subtlety complex and balanced while Brewshed is much more spicy, estery, and more in your face. Although the style is completely different (Belgian IIPA), the feeling I'm getting is like when one puts an Urthel Hop-It next to a L'Achouffe Houblon.

 

[usurpers26]

Well, if you go by Mr. Malty - 5 gallons of 1.058 with an 86% viable yeast (June 1st, 2011 prod date) would need ~200 billion cells (two packets).

Now will it ferment out with one packet? Most likely. You will definitely stress the yeast a lot though pitching at a 50% pitch rate.

Think it would be a problem to not have a starter on a 5 gallon batch? I want to brew it tomorrow...

 

[usurpers26]

Edit: I can see the pics fine from my iPhone. No need to repost. We actually would love to use that photo for our website if that is ok with you?

Thank you for the kind words though, glad you are enjoying the beer

^^^ Thanks usurpers26 ^^^

I appreciate the detailed response. This beer is so well-balanced and drinkable. I made your recipe and aside from changing the candi sugar to jaggery, everything was right on — even the numbers. But there was one thing... I dumped the wort onto a previously used 3711 yeast cake. Here's a photo of How Rye I Am:

Your recipe used a second generation 3711 yeast cake that wasn't washed or treated. The yeast cake was developed from another farmhouse ale (pale malt, flaked wheat and flaked oats with ginger, grains of paradise, and orange zest). Here's How Rye I Am next to Brewshed Ale:

Now you know where I'm coming from. It's fun to put these two beer side-by-side. Youra is so subtlety complex and balanced while Brewshed is much more spicy, estery, and more in your face. Although the style is completely different (Belgian IIPA), the feeling I'm getting is like when one puts an Urthel Hop-It next to a L'Achouffe Houblon.

 

[makisupa]

Thanks for asking. Please go right ahead. If you're giving a photo credit please use Jonathan Healey at A View Of You. I just noticed you're in Connecticut. I am too. What's your website? Do you have a homebrew club?

 

[usurpers26]

Thanks Jonathan!

Our website is:
www.stubbornbeauty.com

We are actually just beginning the process of going for our CT Brewery License.

Thanks for asking. Please go right ahead. If you're giving a photo credit please use Jonathan Healey at A View Of You. I just noticed you're in Connecticut. I am too. What's your website? Do you have a homebrew club?

 

[KCBigDog]

I'm brewing this up now. Did a starter yesterday. Not sure if it worked though, I may not have boiled the dme long enough due to a boilover, and fear for my life from SWMBO...

Guess I'll find out tomorrow, and might have to make a trip to LHBS.

 

[xxHelderxx]

Haha- my LHBS has one packet of Wyeast3711 left and I can't get to the store until tomorrow afternoon! I wish I could call dibs!

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Brewed something very similar to this a few weeks ago.

10 Gallons

20# Pilsner
4# Rye
3# Cane Sugar (boiled)
3 oz (10% AA) Magnum @ 60 min
4 oz (4% AA) Saaz @ flameout
(Gypsum added to harden the water to accentuate dryness)
WLP565 w/ 1.2L starter

OG 1.067. Pitched in the low 70's, and when I started detecting fermentation (quickly), I raised the temp to 86 over a few days. Let it sit in primary @ 86 for three weeks. Checked it today, and it's finished at 1.004, tastes & smells nice and peppery, and so I'm crash-cooling it to keg on Tuesday.

 

[KCBigDog]

I just kegged and bottled the origianl recipe. All I can say is WOW! Best Hydro sample I've ever tasted, and my FG was 1.002. That makes it over 7.8%.

 

[Grasslands]

This recipe looks awesome! I've never done a saison, but I've definitely enjoyed the fruits of other saison-brewers' labors. I'm also intrigued by the mention of using oats, so the president of my brew club and I are going in on a 10g batch in a few weeks with the following grain bill:

15 lbs Belgian Pils
5 lbs Rye
2 lbs Flaked Oats
2 lbs Turbinado

We had to special order the 3711 as my LHBS only carries White Labs liquid yeasts. We're planning on doing two 1.5L starters.

Totally stoked to brew this!

 

[usurpers26]

Even though we did not use oats in the original recipe, the WY3711 will compliment that addition beautifully. WY3711 on its own gives the beer such a unique silky mouthfeel.

Let us know how it turns out and enjoy!

This recipe looks awesome! I've never done a saison, but I've definitely enjoyed the fruits of other saison-brewers' labors. I'm also intrigued by the mention of using oats, so the president of my brew club and I are going in on a 10g batch in a few weeks with the following grain bill:

15 lbs Belgian Pils
5 lbs Rye
2 lbs Flaked Oats
2 lbs Turbinado

We had to special order the 3711 as my LHBS only carries White Labs liquid yeasts. We're planning on doing two 1.5L starters.

Totally stoked to brew this!

 

[Grasslands]

Thanks and will do! This looks like an awesome (and surprisingly simple) recipe.

We debated on using flaked vs. oat malt - and if the desire is really only to get an increased silkiness into the saison (and it'd only be <10% of the grainbill anyway), then it seemed easier just to go the flaked route.

My buddy (the brew club pres) can't help himself from being overly creative. He's prepared to lose his mind by splitting his 5g into 3 different saisons: 2g unmodified w/3711, 2g secondary(ed) with some brett to get a sour rye saison, and 1g dryhopped with Cascade or Citra.

I'm completely fine leaving as is and letting him do all the crazy stuff.

Even though we did not use oats in the original recipe, the WY3711 will compliment that addition beautifully. WY3711 on its own gives the beer such a unique silky mouthfeel.

Let us know how it turns out and enjoy!

 

[xxHelderxx]

Quick question- are you calculating these IBUs based on Tinseth or Rager scale?

 

[usurpers26]

using tinseth

Quick question- are you calculating these IBUs based on Tinseth or Rager scale?

 

[KCBigDog]

Put this in the kegerator Friday night after 5 weeks of primary and 2 weeks of keg conditioning. I'm totally loving the flavor, but the particles floating in the beer are more than I've ever had. I'm hoping that it settles out soon, otherwise it's almost undrinkable.

 

[TairyHesticles]

So I brewed this a few weeks back and I'm thinking about adding some wild yeast to half the batch during bottling. Possibly some brett. No sure what strain though. Any thoughts/suggestions?

 

[Grasslands]

As an update, my buddy and I finally got to brewing a 10g batch of this over the past weekend. The only changes were adding 2 lbs of flaked oats to the mash (intentional) and using German pils instead of Belgian pils (unintentional). My LHBS had only a pound of Belgian pils left in stock and our hands were forced.

From what I gather, it shouldn't really affect the overall flavor/mouthfeel of this saison, considering that the complexity of it derives from the 3711.

Regardless, pretty flawless brewday! We ended up with a 1.061 starting gravity and she smelled absolutely wonderful. Also, 3711 is no joke.

Thanks and will do! This looks like an awesome (and surprisingly simple) recipe.

We debated on using flaked vs. oat malt - and if the desire is really only to get an increased silkiness into the saison (and it'd only be <10% of the grainbill anyway), then it seemed easier just to go the flaked route.

My buddy (the brew club pres) can't help himself from being overly creative. He's prepared to lose his mind by splitting his 5g into 3 different saisons: 2g unmodified w/3711, 2g secondary(ed) with some brett to get a sour rye saison, and 1g dryhopped with Cascade or Citra.

I'm completely fine leaving as is and letting him do all the crazy stuff.

 

[Grasslands]

My buddy who brewed this with me is splitting his 5g up in three ways (simply because he can't help himself): 2g normal with 3711, 2g soured (racked onto a white labs sour mix cake), and 1g dryhopped with citra.

I'll have to let you know how that all turns out; though it'll most likely be months and months from now before there's any results. This is my first saison, so I've got no idea as to how adding brett or any other souring yeast would do to the beer. I say go for it - this is an easy recipe to re-do if the brett make it undrinkable (though I don't think that'll be the case).

So I brewed this a few weeks back and I'm thinking about adding some wild yeast to half the batch during bottling. Possibly some brett. No sure what strain though. Any thoughts/suggestions?

 

[usurpers26]

Man, hope it settles out for ya. How did you end up with particulates though? There are almost no hops in this. Is it just break material?

Put this in the kegerator Friday night after 5 weeks of primary and 2 weeks of keg conditioning. I'm totally loving the flavor, but the particles floating in the beer are more than I've ever had. I'm hoping that it settles out soon, otherwise it's almost undrinkable.

 

[Grasslands]

The "German" rye saison is amazingly still chugging away - I'd say I'm giving it another week and a half before kegging. I'm extremely eager to taste this sucker.

 

[usurpers26]

I think you will be hard pressed to taste any difference in this beer with regards to using German vs Belgian Pils.

The "German" rye saison is amazingly still chugging away - I'd say I'm giving it another week and a half before kegging. I'm extremely eager to taste this sucker.

 

[Grasslands]

This was my thought as well. Though when I was in the LHBS, I had to make a decision as to either wait several days for them to get some Belgian Pils in, or purchase the German Pils...as a man of little patience, I made the predictable decision. A third option was two-row, which I might try at some point in the future...

Here's a quick peek at it going off on the 2nd day:
[ame="http://youtu.be/QIVkhgT2guA"]http://youtu.be/QIVkhgT2guA[/ame]

I think you will be hard pressed to taste any difference in this beer with regards to using German vs Belgian Pils.

 

[coypoo]

I have this in my schedule for October and cannot wait. Please post your results!

 

[Grasslands]

I have this in my schedule for October and cannot wait. Please post your results!

I'm really considering making this batch the first one I harvest yeast from. 3711 is quite the hungry yeast and my LHBS has to special order Wyeast packs because they usually have White Labs.

Amazingly, it's still fermenting. I get CO2 action about every 8-10 seconds, but still, that's a lot of action considering it's been fermenting for over a week. I think the yeast from the yeast cake will be fairly healthy, given that I pitched a bigger starter than the OP.

Can't wait to get this badboy carbed up

 

[usurpers26]

A bit off topic - but we used WY3711 for a different beer (an apple-wheat saison) and we just pitched another beer (a really hoppy, roasty black ale) on top of the cake last weekend. Both beers had OGs in the 70's. It took right off in a few hours...

I'm really considering making this batch the first one I harvest yeast from. 3711 is quite the hungry yeast and my LHBS has to special order Wyeast packs because they usually have White Labs.