How my brews landed me in the ER

[BobbiLynn]

I know it seems like I've been having a lot of problems with my brews lately, but I have been trying new things, changing my techniques plus brewing a lot lately. When I used to just brew the same old extract kits over and over, I never had any problems, but it got boring.

So I switched to all grain about a month and a half ago, been brewing like crazy. Also have been very eager to give them a try to see how they compare to extract kits with some steeped grains. So not fermenting long enough, bottling too soon. And seems like they are taking forever to clear up so I've started racking to secondaries to speed things along. This has given me access the very young beer(racking in just 5-7 days in some cases). And of course I must "taste" it. Not sure at what point tasting it becomes drinking it. Since I've been home alone most of the time, wasn't really worried about the, um, flatulence. Figured that was the worst it could do to me.

But then I got this sore throat about a week ago, felt swollen and even a little difficult to breath at one point. Completely lost my voice. I know I should have gone straight to the doctor, or maybe even to the ER, but just took benadryl and ibuprofen instead. It seemed like the sore throat was related to the beer, so laid off the beer for a couple days, sore throat seemed to be getting better. Then got back to trying out my latest brews, and "tasting" the half-fermented ones, no problems for a couple days. Then after a day of heavy "tasting", sore throat was back with a vengeance and my whole mouth and tongue even felt sore and a little swollen. Looked in the mirror last night and noticed a bunch of little red bumps in my mouth. So I figured this morning, I'd go straight to the doctor, even if I had to go to the walk-in clinic and wait.

But I didn't make it to morning and ended up in the ER. Got to the point where I felt like I could barely breath. I told them I thought I might be allergic to beer. Which was my worst fear. They swabbed my mouth and back in my throat area. Turns out I had oral candidiasis and they suspected also esophageal candidiasis. More commonly known as thrush. Since I am otherwise perfectly healthy, besides being under a great deal of stress lately, they think it was directly related to the drinking the yeasty beer. So they sent me home with some pills to take for 14 days and told no beer, no wine, no bread until after treatment is complete. They said the pills should clear it right up but keep taking them for the whole 14 days. Oh, and no more yeasty beer, ever.

So, no more tasting for me until the beer is completely finished. Also going to at least double the times in the fermenters and bottles. And looks like it'll be a while before I'll be doing any beer drinking. This really sucks, but won't stop me from brewing.

I don't know how much yeasty beer it is okay to drink, but I do know that "quite a bit" can be way too much. From now on for me, I'm going to completely stay away from tasting unfinished beer. I'll get to taste it when it's finished, patience. According to the ER doctor, drinking too much yeasty beer can cause thrush and he thinks that's exactly how I got it. Also said it can be dangerous when it gets in your esophagus. So let my experience be a warning.

 

[Varmintman]

Dang Bobbi. Who would have thought it. I was wondering where you were

 

[h4mmy86]

Whoa, I always hear patience is key, but I had no idea!

 

[BobbiLynn]

I just looked on this site and saw where people are saying this is impossible since it's a whole different strain, so wondering now if I should have posted this. But I don't see how it could be unrelated to the brews. Of course the doctor was not familiar with homebrewing, but he thought it was the brew too.

 

[Varmintman]

Just glad you are feeling better.

Now that I got that out of the way STAY OUT OF THE FERMENTERS YOUNG LADY.

 

[stmou984]

I've had thrush 3 times. All of them before I began homebrewing. I have thought about this possibility. Try cold crashing your beer in secondary to drop the yeast out faster.

 

[Revvy]

You...Can't...Get....Candida.....from...beer...yeast
THEY ARE NOT IN THE SAME FAMILY. It doesn't matter if the beer is unfermented or fully fermented.

I put a lot of information on the forum to "debunk" or help clear up this misconception, it's a totally different strain.

Here, and here and here.

Here's a summary from one of the links I've posted-

The yeast that is used for baking and beer making (Saccharomyces cerevisiae) has nothing to do with the yeast that causes yeast infections (Candida albicans). The two have no more in common than a house cat would have with a tiger - they`re both cats, but their ability to do harm is very different.

Because ignorance can be a dangerous thing....

 

[terrapinj]

my guess is that it wasn't caused by the beer but was exacerbated by either the alcohol or the sugar (esp if the beers weren't finished) which could help the encourage growth of the Candida

were you on antibiotics at all recently? that can throw the balance of organisms in your body off as well

 

[gstrawn]

I'm a pharmD candidate, and thrush is definitely not caused by the yeast /fungus we use for brewing. Many people are carriers of the yeast that is causative of oral candidiasis, and it's possible that drinking premature beer could have triggered an infection. You can eat yeasty bread and what not but don't drink any form of alcohol while on the med, I'm assuming metronidazole, as you will regret it I guarantee. I wouldn't worry about drinking beer in the future being a problem, I would likely suffer from symptoms much worse than thrush if I had to give up beer.

 

[Revvy]

The closest relationship is that the maltose in beer in some cases can feed a PRE-EXISTING candida infection. They candida bacteria can eat maltose like beer yeast can. But the yeast in beer has nothing to do with giving you candida.

Beer can also aggravate nail fungus, jock itch, and skin rashes.

Gstrong and Terrapin beat me to it.

 

[BobbiLynn]

I read that post of yours, Revvy, but after I posted, had no idea until after posting this that there even were rumors about it. Just going by what the doctor said.... No antibiotics or anything.

And wonder why he said no bread, wine or beer if they are different strains.

 

[TNGabe]

I read that post of yours, Revvy, but after I posted, had no idea until after posting this that there even were rumors about it. Just going by what the doctor said.... No antibiotics or anything.

And wonder why he said no bread, wine or beer if they are different strains.

Yet more proof that persistence is more imporant than intelligence in becoming a medical doctor.

I'd give you a great big hug if I could BobbiLynn. You sure sound like you could use one.

 

[BobbiLynn]

Many people are carriers of the yeast that is causative of oral candidiasis, and it's possible that drinking premature beer could have triggered an infection.

Okay, I see!!!

 

[Revvy]

I read that post of yours, Revvy, but after I posted, had no idea until after posting this that there even were rumors about it. Just going by what the doctor said.... No antibiotics or anything.

And wonder why he said no bread, wine or beer if they are different strains.

If your doctor is saying it, he/she is another one of those ignorant ones that skipped that class. But they just need to go to medline/or pubmed(where I got that info from, as well as working at the largest single campus medical school in the country since 1989) and find those references. And then MAYBE they can treat you for the actual case of candida that you have.

 

[Revvy]

Yet more proof that persistence is more imporant than intelligence in becoming a medical doctor.
(

I've worked with every first year medical student class since 1989 except for the 5 years were I was finishing seminary and doing ministry in MO and FLA, before coming back to my old job when I moved back here to care for my ailing father...and I can attest to that.

And also most clinicians as well.

You know how my saying under my name, "Post Hoc Ergo Proptor Hoc?" I've found that most physicians and many auto mechanics as well, often operate under a slightly different logical fallacy, "Cum Hoc Ergo Proptor Hoc." (Correlation does not imply causation.)

That's why god invented medical tests and second opinions. And computer codes in cars.

 

[BobbiLynn]

Yeah, it wasn't my real doctor, and I went to the poor people ER. Anyway, feeling better already and actually feel better knowing that it wasn't as related to the beer as I thought. :rockin:

 

[Xpertskir]

I think what revvy is saying...drink up.

disclaimer: dont drink beer

 

[hebbs]

I'm a pharmD candidate, and thrush is definitely not caused by the yeast /fungus we use for brewing. Many people are carriers of the yeast that is causative of oral candidiasis, and it's possible that drinking premature beer could have triggered an infection. You can eat yeasty bread and what not but don't drink any form of alcohol while on the med, I'm assuming metronidazole, as you will regret it I guarantee. I wouldn't worry about drinking beer in the future being a problem, I would likely suffer from symptoms much worse than thrush if I had to give up beer.

Metronidazole doesn't treat candida! Back to the books for you!

Edit: from your location looks like you are a UGA boy- study hard and don't let me catch you slipping again or Ill sick Dr. Cobb on ya!

 

[the_trout]

I think what revvy is saying...drink up.

disclaimer: dont drink beer

That's really funny. Seriously, I love it.

 

[Walking_Target]

Yeah... What Revvy said. Thrush yeast is in the same family as the yeast that causes burning itchyness south of the equator.

saccharomyces cerevisiae cannot live in your body for any length of time.

 

[Chromebrew]

Not to derail the thread, but i knew this guy who would drink a growler of craft brew a night (Fort Collins, CO) and he developed some terrible case of Gout. The docs there said it was the worst case they had seen in and were certain it was related to his taste for the frosty beverage. Does this fall under the same misinformation catagory?

 

[gstrawn]

Metronidazole doesn't treat candida! Back to the books for you!

Edit: from your location looks like you are a UGA boy- study hard and don't let me catch you slipping again or Ill sick Dr. Cobb on ya!

A hahahah hilarious. Lets say fluconazole and pretend that didn't happen. Dr. Cobb is still around, great guy, but don't tell!

 

[BobbiLynn]

Not to derail the thread, but i knew this guy who would drink a growler of craft brew a night (Fort Collins, CO) and he developed some terrible case of Gout. The docs there said it was the worst case they had seen in and were certain it was related to his taste for the frosty beverage. Does this fall under the same misinformation catagory?

It bugs me the way my doctors always seem to want to blame whatever ails me on beer!!! Forget what they say!! I will just say Revvy says otherwise, HA!

Rumors, it's all rumors!!

 

[edds5p0]

I am prone to Tinea Versacolor, which is caused by alibicans having such a hospitable environment on my skin that it starts developing hyphae instead of remaining in a single cell state. When it gets bad, a couple doses of ketoconazole clears it up.

 

[Yooper]

Not to derail the thread, but i knew this guy who would drink a growler of craft brew a night (Fort Collins, CO) and he developed some terrible case of Gout. The docs there said it was the worst case they had seen in and were certain it was related to his taste for the frosty beverage. Does this fall under the same misinformation catagory?

Unfortunately, gout is exacerbated by alcohol. sorry to bear bad news!

 

[Chromebrew]

Unfortunately, gout is exacerbated by alcohol. sorry to bear bad news!

Nah, just bad news for him. He was a mess anyway.

 

[Revvy]

Unfortunately, gout is exacerbated by alcohol. sorry to bear bad news!

Yup. That is one of the sad truths. And my understanding, for some reason homebrew IS worse than commercial beer for triggering it. But I can't recall where I read it.

 

[TNGabe]

Yup. That is one of the sad truths. And my understanding, for some reason homebrew IS worse than commercial beer for triggering it. But I can't recall where I read it.

Maybe it's the lack of filtration?

Beer increases your chance of gout more than other alcoholic beverages because beer has lots of purine and your body makes that into uric acid. If you've got more uric acid than you can get rid of, you get gout. Maybe I should go have another glass of water and put that last slice of pork loin I was going to snack on in the fridge....

 

[Walking_Target]

Dehydration definitely makes you chances of gout go up. I try to drink an equal volume of water any time I have a beer.

 

[oldstyle69]

Maybe it's the lack of filtration?

Beer increases your chance of gout more than other alcoholic beverages because beer has lots of purine and your body makes that into uric acid. If you've got more uric acid than you can get rid of, you get gout. Maybe I should go have another glass of water and put that last slice of pork loin I was going to snack on in the fridge....

everyone that i know that has had gout was from drinking and eating way way way to much red meat. steak and burgers for 3 meals a day on top of heavy drinking.