Quantcast

How my brews landed me in the ER

HomeBrewTalk.com - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Community.

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

BobbiLynn

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2012
Messages
2,951
Reaction score
793
I know it seems like I've been having a lot of problems with my brews lately, but I have been trying new things, changing my techniques plus brewing a lot lately. When I used to just brew the same old extract kits over and over, I never had any problems, but it got boring.

So I switched to all grain about a month and a half ago, been brewing like crazy. Also have been very eager to give them a try to see how they compare to extract kits with some steeped grains. So not fermenting long enough, bottling too soon. And seems like they are taking forever to clear up so I've started racking to secondaries to speed things along. This has given me access the very young beer(racking in just 5-7 days in some cases). And of course I must "taste" it. Not sure at what point tasting it becomes drinking it. Since I've been home alone most of the time, wasn't really worried about the, um, flatulence. Figured that was the worst it could do to me.

But then I got this sore throat about a week ago, felt swollen and even a little difficult to breath at one point. Completely lost my voice. I know I should have gone straight to the doctor, or maybe even to the ER, but just took benadryl and ibuprofen instead. It seemed like the sore throat was related to the beer, so laid off the beer for a couple days, sore throat seemed to be getting better. Then got back to trying out my latest brews, and "tasting" the half-fermented ones, no problems for a couple days. Then after a day of heavy "tasting", sore throat was back with a vengeance and my whole mouth and tongue even felt sore and a little swollen. Looked in the mirror last night and noticed a bunch of little red bumps in my mouth. So I figured this morning, I'd go straight to the doctor, even if I had to go to the walk-in clinic and wait.

But I didn't make it to morning and ended up in the ER. Got to the point where I felt like I could barely breath. I told them I thought I might be allergic to beer. Which was my worst fear. They swabbed my mouth and back in my throat area. Turns out I had oral candidiasis and they suspected also esophageal candidiasis. More commonly known as thrush. Since I am otherwise perfectly healthy, besides being under a great deal of stress lately, they think it was directly related to the drinking the yeasty beer. So they sent me home with some pills to take for 14 days and told no beer, no wine, no bread until after treatment is complete. They said the pills should clear it right up but keep taking them for the whole 14 days. Oh, and no more yeasty beer, ever.

So, no more tasting for me until the beer is completely finished. Also going to at least double the times in the fermenters and bottles. And looks like it'll be a while before I'll be doing any beer drinking. This really sucks, but won't stop me from brewing.

I don't know how much yeasty beer it is okay to drink, but I do know that "quite a bit" can be way too much. From now on for me, I'm going to completely stay away from tasting unfinished beer. I'll get to taste it when it's finished, patience. According to the ER doctor, drinking too much yeasty beer can cause thrush and he thinks that's exactly how I got it. Also said it can be dangerous when it gets in your esophagus. So let my experience be a warning.
 
OP
BobbiLynn

BobbiLynn

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2012
Messages
2,951
Reaction score
793
I just looked on this site and saw where people are saying this is impossible since it's a whole different strain, so wondering now if I should have posted this. But I don't see how it could be unrelated to the brews. Of course the doctor was not familiar with homebrewing, but he thought it was the brew too.
 

Varmintman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Messages
2,090
Reaction score
661
Location
idaho falls
Just glad you are feeling better.

Now that I got that out of the way STAY OUT OF THE FERMENTERS YOUNG LADY.
 

stmou984

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2012
Messages
50
Reaction score
2
I've had thrush 3 times. All of them before I began homebrewing. I have thought about this possibility. Try cold crashing your beer in secondary to drop the yeast out faster.
 

Revvy

Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
41,302
Reaction score
3,679
Location
"Detroitish" Michigan
You...Can't...Get....Candida.....from...beer...yeast
THEY ARE NOT IN THE SAME FAMILY. It doesn't matter if the beer is unfermented or fully fermented.

I put a lot of information on the forum to "debunk" or help clear up this misconception, it's a totally different strain.

Here, and here and here.

Here's a summary from one of the links I've posted-
The yeast that is used for baking and beer making (Saccharomyces cerevisiae) has nothing to do with the yeast that causes yeast infections (Candida albicans). The two have no more in common than a house cat would have with a tiger - they`re both cats, but their ability to do harm is very different.
Because ignorance can be a dangerous thing....
 

terrapinj

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2010
Messages
2,406
Reaction score
173
Location
Santa Monica
my guess is that it wasn't caused by the beer but was exacerbated by either the alcohol or the sugar (esp if the beers weren't finished) which could help the encourage growth of the Candida

were you on antibiotics at all recently? that can throw the balance of organisms in your body off as well
 

gstrawn

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2011
Messages
374
Reaction score
28
Location
Athens
I'm a pharmD candidate, and thrush is definitely not caused by the yeast /fungus we use for brewing. Many people are carriers of the yeast that is causative of oral candidiasis, and it's possible that drinking premature beer could have triggered an infection. You can eat yeasty bread and what not but don't drink any form of alcohol while on the med, I'm assuming metronidazole, as you will regret it I guarantee. I wouldn't worry about drinking beer in the future being a problem, I would likely suffer from symptoms much worse than thrush if I had to give up beer.
 

Revvy

Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
41,302
Reaction score
3,679
Location
"Detroitish" Michigan
The closest relationship is that the maltose in beer in some cases can feed a PRE-EXISTING candida infection. They candida bacteria can eat maltose like beer yeast can. But the yeast in beer has nothing to do with giving you candida.

Beer can also aggravate nail fungus, jock itch, and skin rashes. :(

Gstrong and Terrapin beat me to it. :)
 
OP
BobbiLynn

BobbiLynn

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2012
Messages
2,951
Reaction score
793
I read that post of yours, Revvy, but after I posted, had no idea until after posting this that there even were rumors about it. Just going by what the doctor said.... No antibiotics or anything.

And wonder why he said no bread, wine or beer if they are different strains.
 

TNGabe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2012
Messages
6,657
Reaction score
2,293
I read that post of yours, Revvy, but after I posted, had no idea until after posting this that there even were rumors about it. Just going by what the doctor said.... No antibiotics or anything.

And wonder why he said no bread, wine or beer if they are different strains.
Yet more proof that persistence is more imporant than intelligence in becoming a medical doctor.

I'd give you a great big hug if I could BobbiLynn. You sure sound like you could use one. :(
 
OP
BobbiLynn

BobbiLynn

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2012
Messages
2,951
Reaction score
793
Many people are carriers of the yeast that is causative of oral candidiasis, and it's possible that drinking premature beer could have triggered an infection.
Okay, I see!!!
 

Revvy

Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
41,302
Reaction score
3,679
Location
"Detroitish" Michigan
I read that post of yours, Revvy, but after I posted, had no idea until after posting this that there even were rumors about it. Just going by what the doctor said.... No antibiotics or anything.

And wonder why he said no bread, wine or beer if they are different strains.
If your doctor is saying it, he/she is another one of those ignorant ones that skipped that class. But they just need to go to medline/or pubmed(where I got that info from, as well as working at the largest single campus medical school in the country since 1989) and find those references. And then MAYBE they can treat you for the actual case of candida that you have.
 

Revvy

Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
41,302
Reaction score
3,679
Location
"Detroitish" Michigan
Yet more proof that persistence is more imporant than intelligence in becoming a medical doctor.
(
I've worked with every first year medical student class since 1989 except for the 5 years were I was finishing seminary and doing ministry in MO and FLA, before coming back to my old job when I moved back here to care for my ailing father...and I can attest to that.

And also most clinicians as well.

You know how my saying under my name, "Post Hoc Ergo Proptor Hoc?" I've found that most physicians and many auto mechanics as well, often operate under a slightly different logical fallacy, "Cum Hoc Ergo Proptor Hoc." (Correlation does not imply causation.)

That's why god invented medical tests and second opinions. And computer codes in cars. ;)
 
OP
BobbiLynn

BobbiLynn

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2012
Messages
2,951
Reaction score
793
Yeah, it wasn't my real doctor, and I went to the poor people ER. Anyway, feeling better already and actually feel better knowing that it wasn't as related to the beer as I thought. :rockin:
 

hebbs

Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2012
Messages
14
Reaction score
3
gstrawn said:
I'm a pharmD candidate, and thrush is definitely not caused by the yeast /fungus we use for brewing. Many people are carriers of the yeast that is causative of oral candidiasis, and it's possible that drinking premature beer could have triggered an infection. You can eat yeasty bread and what not but don't drink any form of alcohol while on the med, I'm assuming metronidazole, as you will regret it I guarantee. I wouldn't worry about drinking beer in the future being a problem, I would likely suffer from symptoms much worse than thrush if I had to give up beer.
Metronidazole doesn't treat candida! Back to the books for you! :p

Edit: from your location looks like you are a UGA boy- study hard and don't let me catch you slipping again or Ill sick Dr. Cobb on ya!
 

Walking_Target

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Messages
226
Reaction score
12
Location
Peterborough
Yeah... What Revvy said. Thrush yeast is in the same family as the yeast that causes burning itchyness south of the equator.

saccharomyces cerevisiae cannot live in your body for any length of time.
 

Chromebrew

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
150
Reaction score
9
Location
Katy
Not to derail the thread, but i knew this guy who would drink a growler of craft brew a night (Fort Collins, CO) and he developed some terrible case of Gout. The docs there said it was the worst case they had seen in and were certain it was related to his taste for the frosty beverage. Does this fall under the same misinformation catagory?
 

gstrawn

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2011
Messages
374
Reaction score
28
Location
Athens
hebbs said:
Metronidazole doesn't treat candida! Back to the books for you! :p

Edit: from your location looks like you are a UGA boy- study hard and don't let me catch you slipping again or Ill sick Dr. Cobb on ya!
A hahahah hilarious. Lets say fluconazole and pretend that didn't happen. Dr. Cobb is still around, great guy, but don't tell!
 
OP
BobbiLynn

BobbiLynn

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2012
Messages
2,951
Reaction score
793
Not to derail the thread, but i knew this guy who would drink a growler of craft brew a night (Fort Collins, CO) and he developed some terrible case of Gout. The docs there said it was the worst case they had seen in and were certain it was related to his taste for the frosty beverage. Does this fall under the same misinformation catagory?
It bugs me the way my doctors always seem to want to blame whatever ails me on beer!!! Forget what they say!! I will just say Revvy says otherwise, HA!

Rumors, it's all rumors!!
 

edds5p0

KN4SQH
Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Messages
377
Reaction score
55
I am prone to Tinea Versacolor, which is caused by alibicans having such a hospitable environment on my skin that it starts developing hyphae instead of remaining in a single cell state. When it gets bad, a couple doses of ketoconazole clears it up.
 

Yooper

Ale's What Cures You!
Staff member
Admin
Mod
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
74,511
Reaction score
12,042
Location
UP/Snowbird in Florida
Not to derail the thread, but i knew this guy who would drink a growler of craft brew a night (Fort Collins, CO) and he developed some terrible case of Gout. The docs there said it was the worst case they had seen in and were certain it was related to his taste for the frosty beverage. Does this fall under the same misinformation catagory?
Unfortunately, gout is exacerbated by alcohol. sorry to bear bad news!
 

TNGabe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2012
Messages
6,657
Reaction score
2,293
Yup. That is one of the sad truths. And my understanding, for some reason homebrew IS worse than commercial beer for triggering it. But I can't recall where I read it.
Maybe it's the lack of filtration?

Beer increases your chance of gout more than other alcoholic beverages because beer has lots of purine and your body makes that into uric acid. If you've got more uric acid than you can get rid of, you get gout. Maybe I should go have another glass of water and put that last slice of pork loin I was going to snack on in the fridge....
 

Walking_Target

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Messages
226
Reaction score
12
Location
Peterborough
Dehydration definitely makes you chances of gout go up. I try to drink an equal volume of water any time I have a beer.
 

oldstyle69

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2011
Messages
581
Reaction score
60
Location
San Diego
Maybe it's the lack of filtration?

Beer increases your chance of gout more than other alcoholic beverages because beer has lots of purine and your body makes that into uric acid. If you've got more uric acid than you can get rid of, you get gout. Maybe I should go have another glass of water and put that last slice of pork loin I was going to snack on in the fridge....
everyone that i know that has had gout was from drinking and eating way way way to much red meat. steak and burgers for 3 meals a day on top of heavy drinking.
 

Revvy

Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
41,302
Reaction score
3,679
Location
"Detroitish" Michigan
Maybe it's the lack of filtration?

Beer increases your chance of gout more than other alcoholic beverages because beer has lots of purine and your body makes that into uric acid. If you've got more uric acid than you can get rid of, you get gout. Maybe I should go have another glass of water and put that last slice of pork loin I was going to snack on in the fridge....
yeah that sounds like what I read. I didn't know about the water part. That's good to know.
 

OrdinaryAvgGuy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
1,004
Reaction score
183
Had a roommate in school that came down with the thrush.

... And it wasn't from drinking beer.

Just sayin...
 

cluckk

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2005
Messages
1,603
Reaction score
368
Location
San Antonio
oldstyle69 said:
everyone that i know that has had gout was from drinking and eating way way way to much red meat. steak and burgers for 3 meals a day on top of heavy drinking.
I have gout and this doesn't describe me. It only takes a diet of high purine foods, which includes far more things than you might think. I use Black Cherry Extract supplements to keep it in check.
 
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Messages
106
Reaction score
3
Location
Bellingham
I am not a doctor, but as a frequent "thrush getter", I can tell you with certainty that it's not from beer. There is a constant balance of yeast and bacteria in your mouth and throat. The bacteria usually keeps the yeast in check. However, if something upsets this balance, yeast can take over and thrush results.

This usually happens (at least in my case) when you have recently been on antibiotics that have killed both the good and bad bacteria, giving the yeast the upper hand. If you also suffer from asthma, as I do, your inhaler (Ventolin HFA, Advair, Symbicort) will exacerbate these symptoms due to the steroids they contain. If I am on antibiotics, I usually will temporarily stop inhaler use. If you keep using your inhaler, make sure you are rinsing (including gurgling) with warm water frequently, especially after use.

Hope that helps some; thrush sucks. Once you get it good, breathing feels like someone has a towel over your face.
 

Johnnorton61

New Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2020
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
I know it seems like I've been having a lot of problems with my brews lately, but I have been trying new things, changing my techniques plus brewing a lot lately. When I used to just brew the same old extract kits over and over, I never had any problems, but it got boring.

So I switched to all grain about a month and a half ago, been brewing like crazy. Also have been very eager to give them a try to see how they compare to extract kits with some steeped grains. So not fermenting long enough, bottling too soon. And seems like they are taking forever to clear up so I've started racking to secondaries to speed things along. This has given me access the very young beer(racking in just 5-7 days in some cases). And of course I must "taste" it. Not sure at what point tasting it becomes drinking it. Since I've been home alone most of the time, wasn't really worried about the, um, flatulence. Figured that was the worst it could do to me.

But then I got this sore throat about a week ago, felt swollen and even a little difficult to breath at one point. Completely lost my voice. I know I should have gone straight to the doctor, or maybe even to the ER, but just took benadryl and ibuprofen instead. It seemed like the sore throat was related to the beer, so laid off the beer for a couple days, sore throat seemed to be getting better. Then got back to trying out my latest brews, and "tasting" the half-fermented ones, no problems for a couple days. Then after a day of heavy "tasting", sore throat was back with a vengeance and my whole mouth and tongue even felt sore and a little swollen. Looked in the mirror last night and noticed a bunch of little red bumps in my mouth. So I figured this morning, I'd go straight to the doctor, even if I had to go to the walk-in clinic and wait.

But I didn't make it to morning and ended up in the ER. Got to the point where I felt like I could barely breath. I told them I thought I might be allergic to beer. Which was my worst fear. They swabbed my mouth and back in my throat area. Turns out I had oral candidiasis and they suspected also esophageal candidiasis. More commonly known as thrush. Since I am otherwise perfectly healthy, besides being under a great deal of stress lately, they think it was directly related to the drinking the yeasty beer. So they sent me home with some pills to take for 14 days and told no beer, no wine, no bread until after treatment is complete. They said the pills should clear it right up but keep taking them for the whole 14 days. Oh, and no more yeasty beer, ever.

So, no more tasting for me until the beer is completely finished. Also going to at least double the times in the fermenters and bottles. And looks like it'll be a while before I'll be doing any beer drinking. This really sucks, but won't stop me from brewing.

I don't know how much yeasty beer it is okay to drink, but I do know that "quite a bit" can be way too much. From now on for me, I'm going to completely stay away from tasting unfinished beer. I'll get to taste it when it's finished, patience. According to the ER doctor, drinking too much yeasty beer can cause thrush and he thinks that's exactly how I got it. Also said it can be dangerous when it gets in your esophagus. So let my experience be a warning.
I am currently undergoing a couple weeks treatment of anti fungal meds (fluconazole) pill and Nystatin rinse. I know for a fact that it was due to a one night binge drinking session of IPA beers. I ended up with oral thrush and esophageal thrush as well. Don't let anyone tell you that its impossible. Its quite common actually. One is especially susceptible after taking a course of antibiotics.
 

Angell

Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2020
Messages
12
Reaction score
5
Hell yea its possible. I bet I can drink enough beer to weaken my immune system. I know I could chug enough green beer to wipe out beneficial oral bacteria and give C albicans an opportunity to take over... Most of us will get diabetes or a fat liver first.
 

Dancy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Messages
110
Reaction score
65
After all that’s been said here, I have to ask — what’s the appeal of drinking your beer before it’s ready??
 

OldDogBrewing

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2020
Messages
300
Reaction score
209
I am currently undergoing a couple weeks treatment of anti fungal meds (fluconazole) pill and Nystatin rinse. I know for a fact that it was due to a one night binge drinking session of IPA beers. I ended up with oral thrush and esophageal thrush as well. Don't let anyone tell you that its impossible. Its quite common actually. One is especially susceptible after taking a course of antibiotics.
Well it's not posible as the candida yeast gets inhibited by hops, as any other gram positive thingy, so it's even less posible in a heavily hopped beer, so the issue was somewhere else, maybe in the rim of the bottle due to bad hygiene in the handling (not yours, at some point of the storage chain) or maybe in the glasses or who know, but the yeast that causes candida, it's highly improbable as it's gram positive and hopping would inhibit it's growth, gram negative bacteria it's another world
 

BrewZer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2017
Messages
205
Reaction score
104
Location
SW Ohio
After all that’s been said here, I have to ask — what’s the appeal of drinking your beer before it’s ready??
Don't you want to taste the flavor profile at various stages of fermentation?

I know I do...
 

Dancy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Messages
110
Reaction score
65
Don't you want to taste the flavor profile at various stages of fermentation?

I know I do...
TBH, my discretionary tasting ability is not so great — somewhat embarrassed to say so. I think it’s “fun” to taste it when the wort cools and at bottling time but I can’t say what am tasting means this or that. I wonder if tasting during, say, the middle of fermentation tells one anything important?
 
Last edited:
Top