How Many Use RO/DI

[ajdelange]

The conclusion I get from this poll is that a Poll about RO use tends to attract RO users.

That's why the tickler on the all grain page is titled 'Your Water' rather than mentioning RO (and that would be the case here if I could edit the title of the post but I can't).

AJ, I’d like to point out that it’s quite possible to treat your water right without using RO. I used to sparge with RO. Lately I’ve found that 10 drops of lactic acid and 50 milligrams of Campden per gallon work just as well.

I'm sure we all recognize that. While it's interesting to see the comments from people as to why they do or why they do not use RO water what I am trying to find out at this point how many do and don't. I'm not selling anything here. Even though my water is pretty nominal I have come to appreciate the benefits of RO and often suggest that people consider it but if I'm guilty of anything it is unintentional proselytisation - not attempted sales.

 

[thevalkrye]

I use 100% RO with CaCl but have found a few of my beers to taste "flat". I experimented with adding a bit of NaCl added to the finished beer and it seemed to help brighten it up so I may need to add in a bit of that. It also seems to make the hop flavor and grain flavors stand out, like adding salt to a soup heightens the existing flavors.

The stouts are also coming in really low in pH, but the RO does give it a really nice smooth chocolate/roast character. Even using the British profile with Gypsum and CaCl the pH is really low, under 5 post boil. My tap water gives a decent pH for the dark grain bills but I don't like the flavor profile (harsh and more astringent) from it so I would like to get a decent built water to use for stouts.

 

[ajdelange]

As of this writing voting seems to have slowed. 98 people have responded and 67.34% have indicated that they use RO or plan to. Unsurprisingly enough the most likely fraction of brewers using RO water or planning to, based on this sample, is 67.34%. Here are some confidence levels

Most likely Probability: 67.35 percent
90.0020 percent confidence interval: 59.64 to 75.05
95.0016 percent confidence interval: 58.17 to 76.53
99.0000 percent confidence interval: 55.25 to 79.44
99.9000 percent confidence interval: 51.72 to 82.97


Consider this interim. Keep voting if you haven't already.

 

[bovineblitz]

As of this writing voting seems to have slowed. 98 people have responded and 67.34% have indicated that they use RO or plan to. Unsurprisingly enough the most likely fraction of brewers using RO water or planning to, based on this sample, is 67.34% and we can be 99% confident that the actual number is within 11% of that and 90% confident that the actual fraction is within 7.4% of that.

Consider this interim. Keep voting if you haven't already.

Idk man, our confidence intervals don't mean much if we're using a biased sample. I think the best way to gather data like this would be to ask homebrew clubs to do poll, I think we'd get a more representative sample of the average homebrewer.

 

[ChillyCheese]

My tap water tastes fine if it's filtered to remove organics, but I also have to remove chloramine (which I forgot to do once and ruined a batch). Rather than doing those two steps, I decided to just start using RO and following the water primer. My first two batches with RO were an English mild and a Kolsch, and they both turned out much better than any other lighter beers I've done in the past.

 

[ajdelange]

Idk man, our confidence intervals don't mean much if we're using a biased sample. I think the best way to gather data like this would be to ask homebrew clubs to do poll, I think we'd get a more representative sample of the average homebrewer.

Your assuming I'm interested in the average homebrewer. Actually, I'm not (well I am but not for the present purpose). I'm doing it to help John and Colin with their book. The kinds of people who are likely to buy their book are the sort who are likely to participate in a forum like this. IOW I'm interested in a population that has more intense interest in home brewing than the average homebrewer.

I accept that this population is biased (in, as it turns out, exactly the direction I want it to be) and am trying to estimate a statistic based on a sample. I want to know not only what the most probable value for that statistic is but how it is distributed.

This is not to say that data on the universe of homebrewers wouldn't be interesting but obviously I'm not going to get that. And, of course, we'd need to recognize that data from a home brew club in Texas would be sharply biased relative to data from a homebrew club in the Pacific North West.

Overnight another 9 people voted and that reduces the confidence bounds somewhat. What is interesting is that the average use or plan to use fraction has hovered right around 2/3 from the beginning. Here are the latest numbers:

Most likely Probability: 67.29 percent
90.0023 percent confidence interval: 59.91 to 74.67%
95.0026 percent confidence interval: 58.49 to 76.09%
99.0002 percent confidence interval: 55.70 to 78.88%
99.9000 percent confidence interval: 52.34 to 82.24%

 

[bovineblitz]

Ah I gotcha. Very cool.

 

[MoldMan]

I use RO 100% of the time. I realy don't want to drink the city water even if they say its ok. :cross:

 

[Yooper]

This is not to say that data on the universe of homebrewers wouldn't be interesting but obviously I'm not going to get that. And, of course, we'd need to recognize that data from a home brew club in Texas would be sharply biased relative to data from a homebrew club in the Pacific North West.

Overnight another 9 people voted and that reduces the confidence bounds somewhat. What is interesting is that the average use or plan to use fraction has hovered right around 2/3 from the beginning. Here are the latest numbers:

Most likely Probability: 67.29 percent
90.0023 percent confidence interval: 59.91 to 74.67%
95.0026 percent confidence interval: 58.49 to 76.09%
99.0002 percent confidence interval: 55.70 to 78.88%
99.9000 percent confidence interval: 52.34 to 82.24%

And I think AJ is right about the locations of the brewers, and their use of RO/Distilled water.

From what marbrungard has said about Indiana, I think midwest homebrewers would be more likely to "need" RO water as well while the brewers in Portland, OR would not.

 

[TyTanium]

From what marbrungard has said about Indiana, I think midwest homebrewers would be more likely to "need" RO water as well while the brewers in Portland, OR would not.

With the exception of those of us who get water from the great lakes (i.e., Chicago)...much softer water than midwest well water

 

[MNDan]

I got an RO system a year ago and have been very pleased with the improvements in my beers. I've worked up my mineral/lactic acid additions for different styles via the water spreadsheet, so I always know how to create the perfect water. It's also great to be able to nail my mash pH every time. My local water is very hard and it was always tough to brew certain styles. Now it's easy & cheap. I think I make my RO water for around a penny a gallon compared to the local grocery store getting 50 cents a gallon. I'll have my RO system paid for in no time!

BTW - the last DI step isn't necessary, and is perhaps even bad for your beer. Seems to me there is something about DI removing trace minerals that are still important for yeast health? Maybe someone else can chime in...

dan

 

[solbes]

I hear ya on local water being hard (and alkaline!). Still depending on the RO systems I've seen, I'd have to brew more beer than I do now to beat $23 in grocery store water/yr. I average 3 gallons used per 5 gal batch, 20 batches/year, and $.39/gallon cost.

 

[MNDan]

I use my RO system for all of my cooking/drinking needs as well - it more than pays for itself then, not to mention how much better it tastes...

 

[MI_Troll]

100% RO. My well water smells like rotten eggs going onto the filter, tastes like pure chalk coming out of the filter, and only goes into my beer when the hose going to the IC leaks.