How long in Primary and why?

[Nickyssix]

I've seen a few posts where people rack their beer off the trub after a week or so - I've always waited nearly 3 weeks. My reasons being -
1. i think the yeast continues to eat away a lot of off flavours after the fermentable sugars are gone
2. Under 3 weeks poses no risk for autolysis so i can procrastonate that long.
I don't take an SG reading till after 2.5 weeks so

I'm not sure if i'm right or not - How long do others stay in primary before bottling or going 2ndry ?
And why?

 

[joshesmusica]

This is something discussed ad nauseam on here. A quick search of the sight would probably give you more information than just starting a new thread. Some people like to rack the beer off into a secondary vessel. Some don't. Fermentation for most beers is done, or almost done, by about day 7-9. For smaller beers, this can be even shorter. There are some ale and lager strains that are purported to take a bit longer than this, but for the most part, fermentation and the cleanup phase are done by about day 10.

1. No, the yeast complete their cleanup phase by about 2 days after it reaches FG. After that, it's the conditioning phase, which is when yeast and other particulates start dropping out of suspension. Some off-flavors might still age out during this process, but most won't. The key to not having off-flavors is: give your yeast the best environment possible, and they will, in return, give you a clean fermentation.

2. You're right that you can leave it in for longer periods of time on the homebrew scale. There's much, much less internal pressure in our fermenters, which means less of a chance of autolysis for us. Though not many people have experimented to find out just how long they can sit before autolysis starts to occur on our scale.

If you have the patience to wait this long, good for you! But just know that if you're leaving it for this long, and you're bottling, your hop-forward beers are gonna give you much less of a punch by the time you're consuming them compared to a shorter timeline.

 

[oujens]

In my experience, I feel two weeks is plenty for an ale assuming controlled temps and enough healthy yeast are pitched. Fermentation is usually complete under 1 week, and then the yeast have another week to clean up. I think people who leave it in the primary longer get the benefit of extra conditioning which improves flavor and can be done outside the primary. I've noticed that 4-6 weeks conditioning is when the flavor profile is optimal. I wouldn't worry about autolysis if you prefer a longer primary of 3-4 weeks, and I wouldn't worry about a secondary unless you are lagering.

 

[Nickyssix]

This is something discussed ad nauseam on here. A quick search of the sight would probably give you more information than just starting a new thread.

This is true i know, but this is a forum- I think i just wanted to communicate with people - discuss things, ask questions, answer questions today in 2015 not trawl the ghosts of christmas past. Thanks though.

 

[Nickyssix]

In my experience, I feel two weeks is plenty for an ale assuming controlled temps and enough healthy yeast are pitched. Fermentation is usually complete under 1 week, and then the yeast have another week to clean up. I think people who leave it in the primary longer get the benefit of extra conditioning which improves flavor and can be done outside the primary. I've noticed that 4-6 weeks conditioning is when the flavor profile is optimal. I wouldn't worry about autolysis if you prefer a longer primary of 3-4 weeks, and I wouldn't worry about a secondary unless you are lagering.

Sorry should have said I can only really do lagers .. Thanks, yea i agree totally with the extra conditioning on the trub - with a busy life i try and get it out somewhere inbetween the 2-3 week mark...
Then i never secondry Ales- i just carb'n drink not much (if any) conditioning required - but i i've been lagering all winter here, only a couple of ales (have to heat them) where as the lagers at natural temp.

 

[oujens]

Oh, well I've actually had success using the quick lager method and moving to a keg for lagering at two weeks. My fermentation is usually complete in about 10 days and then I give it a couple extra days for d-rest. I've been happy with the results. I think the main thing on a lager is make sure the fermentation is complete and a d-rest is done if needed, and then transfer to lagering vessel when those two criteria are met.

 

[wobdee]

Oh, well I've actually had success using the quick lager method and moving to a keg for lagering at two weeks. My fermentation is usually complete in about 10 days and then I give it a couple extra days for d-rest. I've been happy with the results. I think the main thing on a lager is make sure the fermentation is complete and a d-rest is done if needed, and then transfer to lagering vessel when those two criteria are met.

Same exact thing Ive been doing with great results but since this is a hobby I'm going to change things up and go with a more traditional method. I'll ferment a 50 for 2 weeks, slowly lower to 39 and hold for another 2 weeks all in primary then filter, carb and condition for a few more weeks.

 

[Yooper]

I've seen a few posts where people rack their beer off the trub after a week or so - I've always waited nearly 3 weeks. My reasons being -
1. i think the yeast continues to eat away a lot of off flavours after the fermentable sugars are gone
2. Under 3 weeks poses no risk for autolysis so i can procrastonate that long.
I don't take an SG reading till after 2.5 weeks so

I'm not sure if i'm right or not - How long do others stay in primary before bottling or going 2ndry ?
And why?

My opinion:
1. No, the 'clean up phase' finishes in about 24 hours or so after FG is reached. Being on the trub doesn't do the 'work', though. It's active yeast in suspension that do that.
2. True, but there is some yeast character imparted by longer contact with the trub. Some people actually prefer the flavor of a beer left on the trub longer, while others don't.

I'm one who doesn't love the flavor of yeast character imparted by a long primary, especially in lagers. Lagers should be "clean" and without yeast character in my opinion.

Lagering does some wonderful things to beer- the excess polyphenols drop out, causing a smoother, "crisper" finish and a cleaner flavor.

For lagers, I do about 10 days in the primary, and then 4-6 weeks lagering in the keg. I never keep a lager on the trub longer than after the diacetyl rest (if doing a diacetyl rest).

 

[Homercidal]

I'm mostly in agreement with Yooper. IMO leaving the beer sitting on the yeast cake doesn't do anything useful to the beer in the end. What happens from the yeast is happening from the yeast in suspension, not the dead or inactive cells sitting on the bottom with the trub and gunk.

This is not to say that under good conditions leaving a beer in the promary is necessarily going to turn it into a bad beer. If you use lots of healthy yeast and keep the temps in lower end of the yeast's optimum range, or drop it down to lagering temps, the pickup of yeast character will be minimized. In addition, some people don't notice or mind some yeast character that may be imparted.

I've kept beers on the yeast for longer than I should have. Sometimes they turn out great, and sometimes they aren't as good as I'd like. In general I can't pin the bad beer on a long primary, but I also can't claim that it's really helped the beer either (Unless it's a stalled fermentation, which has happened.)

My better beers have been when I've pitched plenty of healthy yeast at the right temperature, and then racked into a keg (bright tank) or into secondary as soon as it's hit expected FG. the yeast in suspension will do any clean up, and getting the beer cold to flocculate the yeast does a great job of preventing the flocc'ing yeast from imparting unwanted flavors.

I think, in the end, it's a personal choice if they decide to do extended primaries. You may not notice anything different or unusual, but in any case if you think you need to do a long primary to fix anything then that's fine, but you should also be finding out what happened to make a long primary necessary in the first place.

Oh, and 3 weeks isn't really a LONG primary. I'm talking about 6 weeks or a few months. And big beers generally require a little (or a lot) more time to do their thing.

 

[Nickyssix]

My opinion:
1. No, the 'clean up phase' finishes in about 24 hours or so after FG is reached. Being on the trub doesn't do the 'work', though. It's active yeast in suspension that do that.
2. True, but there is some yeast character imparted by longer contact with the trub. Some people actually prefer the flavor of a beer left on the trub longer, while others don't.

I'm one who doesn't love the flavor of yeast character imparted by a long primary, especially in lagers. Lagers should be "clean" and without yeast character in my opinion.

Lagering does some wonderful things to beer- the excess polyphenols drop out, causing a smoother, "crisper" finish and a cleaner flavor.


For lagers, I do about 10 days in the primary, and then 4-6 weeks lagering in the keg. I never keep a lager on the trub longer than after the diacetyl rest (if doing a diacetyl rest).

Great reply thanks - i guess i've just been stuck in my ways and too scared to take it off early. I did it once with an Ale and the beer had a bit of a green taste, a taste i dont usually get. But Saying that i used 'Sterling' Yeast for the first and only time and it was quite a fast crazy ferment compared to the rest.
So i think i will take your advice and take SG readings earlier and get it off the trub earlier and into lager.
That means beer turning over quicker as well:rockin:

 

[Nickyssix]

Oh, and 3 weeks isn't really a LONG primary. I'm talking about 6 weeks or a few months. And big beers generally require a little (or a lot) more time to do their thing.

Thats great to know, Thanks. Quicker turn around - quicker beer !