How does this receipe sound to everyone?

[kingmatt]

First time piecing a recipe together on my own** so I just wanted to get everyone's opinion on how it sounds (I don't own beersmith as of yet).

Recipe Type: Extract
Yeast: Wyeast 1056
Yeast Starter: Yes
Additional Yeast or Yeast Starter: No
Batch Size (Gallons): 5 (full boil)
Original Gravity: ?
Final Gravity: ?
IBU: ?
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 10 days at 60 deg
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 14 days at 60 deg

6lbs Briess Gold Unhopped LME (late addition at 50min)
2lbs Munton Extra Light DME (60 min)
1/2 lb Crystal 40L

Crystal 40L steeped for 30 min in 1.5 gallons of water @ 155 deg

1.5 oz Amarillo 8%AA 60 min
1 oz Amarillo 8%AA 30 min
1 oz Amarillo 8%AA 15 min
1 oz Amarillo 8%AA 5 min
1.5 oz Amarillo 8%AA flameout
2 oz Amarillo 8%AA dry hop

**credit to TheJadedDog's Amarillo IPA as the basis for this recipe.

Can someone help me out on what my expected OG and SG will be and what kind of IBUs I should expect out this beer? Also, any suggestions on how to improve it would be appreciated!

 

[aphex732]

Just an FYI, Beersmith has a 30 day trial period that you can check out.

 

[kingmatt]

Just an FYI, Beersmith has a 30 day trial period that you can check out.

Yeah, I know...I used up my 30 day trial period before I started thinking about making beers not from kits so it was kind of a waste. I will eventually buy a subscription but wanted to see if anyone on the board could help me out with this recipe in the meantime...

 

[downpantera]

One can assume that DME has 46 ppppg (points per pound per gallon)
and LME has 36 ppppg
Crystal is typically around a max of 32 ppppg, but a steeping efficiency might be 50% of that malt (even though all the sugars are soluble, you don't extract them all)

so 6# LME x 36 ppppg = 216 ppg
3# DME x 46 ppppg = 138 ppg
0.5# Xtal 40 x 32 ppppg x 50% eff = 8 ppg

That's in effect 362 points per gallon. You say 5 gallons full boil, which would result in less than that after boil off and even less after leaving behind the hops, hot break and cold break if chilling in the pot.
If you finished with 5 gallons in the pot, you'd have a 1.072 SG.

Why do late addition LME if you're doing full boil?
Why only boil 60 min? I'd recommend 90.
I'd also recommend calculating your boil off coefficient (boil 5 gallons of water and measure how much is left. A graduated dowel helps in this). 14% per hour is a good start.

As for volume, you need to count backwards. This is how I do it:
I want 5 gallons in a keg so:
I need 5.25 gallons in my 2° (secondary), leaving 1 qt behind with sediment
5.5 gallons in 1° (primary) leaving 1 qt behind for yeast cake, cold break, trub
5.75 gallons when chilled, leaving most of the hops, hot break etc in kettle
4% shrinkage means 6 gallons at knockout (means your SG is now 1.060 instead of 1.072)
14% per hour for 90 minute boil means you need to start with 7.6 gallons, pre-boil. This gives you a pre-boil gravity of 1.048 that will concentrate down to 1.060 after boiling for 90 minutes.

When I make hoppy beers, I have to account for dry hops, as they absorb beer and need to be left behind to avoid vegetal leafy flavors in the final product. This is usually another qt per 2 ounces dry hopped.

Also, that's quite a cold fermentation, why so low?

As for IBUs, that's totally dependent upon pre-boil gravity, vigor of boil, chill times, pellet vs whole vs plug hops, age of hops and temperature of storage, etc.
If you go with 6 gallons final volume and boil all the extracts at the beginning, you're looking at 60 IBUs, or a 1:1 BU:GU ratio (Bittering units to Gravity Units).

Pretty nice overall! I wish you good luck!

 

[kingmatt]

One can assume that DME has 46 ppppg (points per pound per gallon)
and LME has 36 ppppg
Crystal is typically around a max of 32 ppppg, but a steeping efficiency might be 50% of that malt (even though all the sugars are soluble, you don't extract them all)

so 6# LME x 36 ppppg = 216 ppg
3# DME x 46 ppppg = 138 ppg
0.5# Xtal 40 x 32 ppppg x 50% eff = 8 ppg

That's in effect 362 points per gallon. You say 5 gallons full boil, which would result in less than that after boil off and even less after leaving behind the hops, hot break and cold break if chilling in the pot.
If you finished with 5 gallons in the pot, you'd have a 1.072 SG.

Why do late addition LME if you're doing full boil?
Why only boil 60 min? I'd recommend 90.
I'd also recommend calculating your boil off coefficient (boil 5 gallons of water and measure how much is left. A graduated dowel helps in this). 14% per hour is a good start.

As for volume, you need to count backwards. This is how I do it:
I want 5 gallons in a keg so:
I need 5.25 gallons in my 2° (secondary), leaving 1 qt behind with sediment
5.5 gallons in 1° (primary) leaving 1 qt behind for yeast cake, cold break, trub
5.75 gallons when chilled, leaving most of the hops, hot break etc in kettle
4% shrinkage means 6 gallons at knockout (means your SG is now 1.060 instead of 1.072)
14% per hour for 90 minute boil means you need to start with 7.6 gallons, pre-boil. This gives you a pre-boil gravity of 1.048 that will concentrate down to 1.060 after boiling for 90 minutes.

When I make hoppy beers, I have to account for dry hops, as they absorb beer and need to be left behind to avoid vegetal leafy flavors in the final product. This is usually another qt per 2 ounces dry hopped.

Also, that's quite a cold fermentation, why so low?

As for IBUs, that's totally dependent upon pre-boil gravity, vigor of boil, chill times, pellet vs whole vs plug hops, age of hops and temperature of storage, etc.
If you go with 6 gallons final volume and boil all the extracts at the beginning, you're looking at 60 IBUs, or a 1:1 BU:GU ratio (Bittering units to Gravity Units).

Pretty nice overall! I wish you good luck!

My brew pot and stove can only handle 5 gallons so I top off whatever has boiled off w/ cold water in the primary to get to 5 gallons (usually need a little less than a gallon top off). I guess it's technically not a full boil...

I was planning on doing a late extract addition to prevent carmalization, give it a little lighter color and prevent extract "twang". I have brewed both ways and find that doing late extract addition seems to result in better tasting beer.

If I do a 90 min boil, what are the benefits and how would that affect my hops schedule?

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[dcp27]

Since its an extract IPA recipe, I wouldn't even bother with a 60min boil. There's no DMS to worry about and you'll want it late add loaded anyway. I'd only boil for 20mins or so and go with something like this for the hop adds:
1oz @15
2oz @10
1oz @5
2oz @flameout
2oz dry hop
should give you around 40IBUs

Edit: BTW, the OG is closer 1.064 for 5gals, downpantera accidentally used 3lbs DME not 2lbs

 

[pkeeler]

I think the recipe looks fine. 1.072 is a high starting gravity, so you might want to make 5.5 gal. or reduce the malt. But if you want a high ABV, then leave it but make sure you do a big starter and aerate well.

60 deg. is a good temp for 1056. 90 min boil is not needed for extract recipes.

Good luck!

 

[downpantera]

My brew pot and stove can only handle 5 gallons so I top off whatever has boiled off w/ cold water in the primary to get to 5 gallons (usually need a little less than a gallon top off). I guess it's technically not a full boil...

I was planning on doing a late extract addition to prevent carmalization, give it a little lighter color and prevent extract "twang". I have brewed both ways and find that doing late extract addition seems to result in better tasting beer.

If I do a 90 min boil, what are the benefits and how would that affect my hops schedule?

Thanks for the feedback!

That makes sense then. If I were you, I would boil the water you're going to use and allow it to cool the night before. Water out of the tap is going to have chlorine and be a great host for bacteria with all the oxygen that is injected through the aerator.

If you really are boiling 5 gallons then there is no reason to do the late addition. Late addition is a remedy for poor extraction of iso-AA from hops in high gravity worts and, like you said, heavy kettle carmelization. With a starting SG of 1.072, that should not be much of an issue. My last IIPA was 1.077 OG and 120 IBUs, and it came out around 6 SRM (this is AG, though, with a pre-boil gravity of 1.063). If you do go late addition, I'd only do abuot 2 lbs, not all 6 of the LME.

The benefits of a 90 minute boil is not just DMS, although that is part of it (All malts have DMS, not just Pilsner malt). It also helps coagulate the the long chain proteins that result in hot break and mid-sized proteins that result in cold break. If you don't boil the wort/extract for a long time, you skip this and have poor break. This leads to weak fermentations, early onset oxidation and is food for microbes, allowing more opportunity for infection later down the line.

The twang you speak of is often due to these proteins that never precipitate until chilled (resulting in chill haze) and the unboiled water that is added, along with a slow chilling and poor fermentation (excessively long lag phase).

 

[Yooper]

Wow- advice from a 90 minute boil to a 15 minute boil!

My two cents- no need to do a 90 minute boil. Heck, I rarely do a 90 minute boil for my AG batches. I see no benefit to a 90 minute boil for most batches, and certainly not for an extract batch. The extract has already been processed, and sometimes you don't even get a hot break with extract. I don't like the rationale given that it has any benefit at all. Extract doesn't really even need to boil at all- it's already been done at the factory.

15 minutes just isn't long enough to extract the IBUs from the hops. But with the "hopsburting" technique like that, you can get quite a few IBUs along with a ton of hops flavor.

I'd go with a traditional 60 minute boil. Late extract addition is a good idea for the reasons you cite. Your recipe is fine. I think it looks good!

 

[kingmatt]

Just an update on this beer as I cracked my first one last night...my favorite homebrew to date!

I didn't get around to picking up a pack of 1056 so I just used a pack of Safale-05 that I had lying around and it worked out great.

My starting gravity ended up being 1.060 and my final gravity came in at 1.016.

The beer itself is very tasty and the citrusy Amarillo hops really shine through! I am a hop head so I feel like the 1/2 lb of hops were perfect but those who aren't as into IBUs may want to scale back some on the hops.

Post and update here if you end up making this beer and let me know how it turns out for you