How do you make (AG) wort for a starter?

[ElDuderino]

On canning and safety:
When I was looking into chilling in the cube, I read a bunch of posts on the Australian forum aussiehomebrewer.com and a bunch of those guys are making wort ahead of time, pouring the hot wort into plastic containers (the hot wort supposedly kills spoilage organisms) and using it weeks or months later. It doesn't seem to be uncommon practice there and I did not read of any posts describing swollen cubes, dead homies, etc...

Just something to consider. May be the combination of heat and the sugary solution itself keep things in check.

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=60142

 

[Hermit]

On canning and safety:
When I was looking into chilling in the cube, I read a bunch of posts on the Australian forum aussiehomebrewer.com and a bunch of those guys are making wort ahead of time, pouring the hot wort into plastic containers (the hot wort supposedly kills spoilage organisms) and using it weeks or months later. It doesn't seem to be uncommon practice there and I did not read of any posts describing swollen cubes, dead homies, etc...

Just something to consider. May be the combination of heat and the sugary solution itself keep things in check.

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=60142

One post I saw suggested that the plastic is permeable to oxygen and therefore, not botulism. Not the case with glass.

 

[BBL_Brewer]

I bet you can find a better deal than that.... A quick search found this

If you might can foods, you should also get the 3-piece regulator.

So do you replace the existing regulator with that one and use it with the gauge or is this for ones that come with gauges? Does it act more like the old canners with jigglers or is it about the same as when using the regulator that comes with it?

 

[Dan]

Ok,

BTW BBl ment to say this before.. Great Avatar!

 

[mthompson]

So do you replace the existing regulator with that one and use it with the gauge or is this for ones that come with gauges? Does it act more like the old canners with jigglers or is it about the same as when using the regulator that comes with it?

It is meant to replace the 1-piece regulator that comes with the Presto, either with or without the dial gauge. The 3-piece allows you to maintain pressure at three levels; 5, 10, and 15 psi . The three pieces are the handle, and two rings that slip over the handle; handle = 5 psi, handle + 1 ring = 10 psi, all three pieces = 15 psi.

I suppose the 3-piece regulator is only useful IF you plan on pressure cooking (5 psi) or canning foodstuffs (usually 10 psi at elevations 1000 ft. or less) and don't want to or can't rely on the pressure gauge. Using as a sterilizer you want 15 psi, which in the big 1-piece that comes with the newer Preston.

I do all these with mine, and find it is way easier to listen to the jiggler rocking than constantly physically looking at the gauge. I used the gauge once and found it hard to get the heat setting on the stove correct in order to maintain constant and proper pressure when using the gauge.

 

[stratslinger]

Some interesting info on canning here - I've one question that I _think_ was answered, but I'd like clarification/confirmation:

If I were to make up a bunch of starter wort and can it ahead of time, assuming I had a pressure canner and used the correct procedures, is there any need to refrigerate the canned wort once processed, or could it safely be stored at room (or basement) temperature?

 

[mthompson]

Some interesting info on canning here - I've one question that I _think_ was answered, but I'd like clarification/confirmation:

If I were to make up a bunch of starter wort and can it ahead of time, assuming I had a pressure canner and used the correct procedures, is there any need to refrigerate the canned wort once processed, or could it safely be stored at room (or basement) temperature?

If pressure canned properly, simply store in a cool dark place. Basements a good for this. No need to refrigerate.

There is no 'safe' way to can wort however, but only because studies have not been conducted on the subject. But if you choose a time/pressure that is used for a similar product, you should run into no problems.... Vegetable stock is close I think.

Now, properly canning vegetable stock requires 30 minutes for pints, 35 for quarts at 10 psi. However that is not considered sterilizing temp/pressure. So just bump it to 15 psi, and time for 45 minutes to give it some leeway....as long as the wort was hot when it went in the canner this will be fine. Cooled wort requires a long time to get internal temps up, so I would do long times. Also your elevation will change the times: higher elevation = longer time.

Make sense?

 

[BBL_Brewer]

Ok,

BTW BBl ment to say this before.. Great Avatar!

Thanks Dan

It is meant to replace the 1-piece regulator that comes with the Presto, either with or without the dial gauge. The 3-piece allows you to maintain pressure at three levels; 5, 10, and 15 psi . The three pieces are the handle, and two rings that slip over the handle; handle = 5 psi, handle + 1 ring = 10 psi, all three pieces = 15 psi.

I suppose the 3-piece regulator is only useful IF you plan on pressure cooking (5 psi) or canning foodstuffs (usually 10 psi at elevations 1000 ft. or less) and don't want to or can't rely on the pressure gauge. Using as a sterilizer you want 15 psi, which in the big 1-piece that comes with the newer Preston.

I do all these with mine, and find it is way easier to listen to the jiggler rocking than constantly physically looking at the gauge. I used the gauge once and found it hard to get the heat setting on the stove correct in order to maintain constant and proper pressure when using the gauge.

Ok, I gotcha. I didn't realize this was an option with the presto's. I just got mine a little over a year ago and it came with the one piece. I suppose it would be a good way to make sure the lower pressures were maintained properly.

 

[ResumeMan]

It is meant to replace the 1-piece regulator that comes with the Presto, either with or without the dial gauge. The 3-piece allows you to maintain pressure at three levels; 5, 10, and 15 psi . The three pieces are the handle, and two rings that slip over the handle; handle = 5 psi, handle + 1 ring = 10 psi, all three pieces = 15 psi.

I suppose the 3-piece regulator is only useful IF you plan on pressure cooking (5 psi) or canning foodstuffs (usually 10 psi at elevations 1000 ft. or less) and don't want to or can't rely on the pressure gauge. Using as a sterilizer you want 15 psi, which in the big 1-piece that comes with the newer Preston.

I do all these with mine, and find it is way easier to listen to the jiggler rocking than constantly physically looking at the gauge. I used the gauge once and found it hard to get the heat setting on the stove correct in order to maintain constant and proper pressure when using the gauge.

Hi, sorry for dragging up an older thread, but I'm just about to press the "buy" button on the Presto canner and came upon this thread.

So to make sure I am understanding correctly - this 3-piece regulator is ONLY needed if you are doing foods that want a pressure less than 15 psi, is that correct? So the regulator weight that comes with the Presto is set for 15, and if all I'm doing is wort, I don't need this thing?

Just making sure I don't need any other parts while I've got my free shipping order going Thanks

 

[mthompson]

Hi, sorry for dragging up an older thread, but I'm just about to press the "buy" button on the Presto canner and came upon this thread.

So to make sure I am understanding correctly - this 3-piece regulator is ONLY needed if you are doing foods that want a pressure less than 15 psi, is that correct? So the regulator weight that comes with the Presto is set for 15, and if all I'm doing is wort, I don't need this thing?

Just making sure I don't need any other parts while I've got my free shipping order going Thanks

Correct, the 1-piece regulator is weighted to rock (release steam) at 15psi. That's the pressure you want for sterilizing wort.

You can always get the 3-piece regulator at a later date if you want to can meats, soups, veggies, etc.

Best regards,

MT

 

[ResumeMan]

Great, thanks.

 

[CHefJohnboyardee]

Ahhh, google love. Thanks gents. So much good info. I was hoping I could waterbath can them but I won't risk it. Freezing for now...

 

[diS]

I am not even freezing my caned wort, I just pour it in jars while it is worm, cap it and leave it on room temp to cold down.. temperature change does the rest.

 

[adamreef]

DiS,

Are you saying that you aren't using a pressure canner at all?

Adam

 

[Dan]

DiS,

Are you saying that you aren't using a pressure canner at all?

Adam

Anxiously awaiting an answer to this question as well. Maybe botulism got him? j/k.

KISS is always a good.

How 'bout an answer DIS?

 

[diS]

No, I am not using pressure canner since it is 5 L (1.5 gal) so it takes too much time to can 8 L of wort which I usually make.

After boiling I pour hot wort in jars, let them cool and put them in fridge (temperature change will repress the lid so I know that they seal). When I want to make starter I pour wort in Erlenmeyer flask and boil it 5-10 minutes which should destroy botulism neurotoxin and most of other bacteria.

Reason why I go this route is because we dont have DME in my country and LME is pretty expensive (especially for starter purpose), so I always mash wort for my starter. It takes less time that if I would pressurize jars, and any risk of contamination is avoided with boiling wort prior to pitching.

Dan, hopefully I"m still alive, I am canning this way over a year and never noticed any strange symptom on myself, and wort so far smelled and looked fresh. I know that look and smell aren't warranty but botulism is not problem if you boil wort before pitching.
I am not saying that this is best way to do it, but so far haven't got any issues with it and I think it is safe as it is making starter w/DME (since wort is boiled prior to pitching).

 

[adamreef]

DiS,

I agree that you are safe from botulism if you are boiling prior to use. Heat will destroy the endotoxins. If you do ever have a freshness problem, you could put the wort in plastic bags or containers and freeze it.

The greatest benefit to pressure canning in my brewing is the ability to open a jar of canned wort, pour it in my starter jug and pitch. No boiling/cooling required. That said, if I couldn't access a pressure canner, I would probably do what you are doing (except freezing).

Adam

 

[diS]

Sure, I like plug-and-play approach but unfortunately I can place only 3 x 3 cup jars in my pressure canner, so it would take 4 steps to pressurize all jars. With the pressure this size I accepted the fact that I need additional step in order to do it right and that's simply the way it is.
I still use it for sterilization of equipment for yeast freezing, and so far I have no intention to buy bigger one.

 

[ResumeMan]

Well the other key is that you're keeping them refrigerated, as I understand that not only does boiling kill the spores, refrigerator temp keeps them from growing in the first place. The main value-added to canning the wort is that it can safely be kept at room temperature, and then used w/o boiling; in that scenario using the pressurization is essential. But if you keep 'em in the fridge you are safe (even if the wort may not be at its best after an extended time).

 

[StMarcos]

I have an all-american autoclave I've used for slant/myco stuff in the past. It says it is not for food. All-American also makes the same model with w weighted top for food, and it is cheaper. Any idea why they don't recommend the one I have for food? You adjust the pressure by adjusting the power delivered. It's not too hard getting it to 15psi and stable for an hour. It's totally sealed so it forms a vacuum on cooling. I usually let it form a slight vacuum and then open the vent in the flow of a hepa hood. Not needed with mason jars I suppose. Still, why wouldn't one want to use a non-weighted version for food?

 

[StMarcos]

On the bottom of this page

http://www.canningpantry.com/all-american-steam-autoclave-sterilizers.html

it says

**Autoclave sterilizers resemble pressure canners but are NOT suitable for the canning process. Likewise, pressure canners must NOT be used as a sterilizer.

Think this is just an fda thing or what?

 

[logdrum]

My older All American 930 canner has no weight and a geared pressure gauge. Don't know why you couldn't use the autoclave, maybe they don't want cross contamination?

 

[jldc]

On the bottom of this page

http://www.canningpantry.com/all-american-steam-autoclave-sterilizers.html

it says

**Autoclave sterilizers resemble pressure canners but are NOT suitable for the canning process. Likewise, pressure canners must NOT be used as a sterilizer.

Think this is just an fda thing or what?

Sounds like too many lawyers in the mix to me. If it can obtain and maintain the right heat it will sterilize your wort. Is there anything in the pressure relieve system that might get clogged by sugars or foam in canned foods?

L

 

[StMarcos]

I suppose the rubber pop-out relief and the standard spring relief could get clogged/glued. There is nothing in the instructions saying I can't sterilize liquids (i.e. wort) for non-food (liquid-culture mycology) purposes. I suppose maybe I should ask them. Not sure if the starter wort is really considered food anyway, as we discard most of it....

I wonder if it had to do with the fact that because pressure is not released continually during the sterilization process, the liquids inside do not actually boil. Maybe a cooldown, jar-sealing thing.