How are You Measuring Fermentation Temperature?

[Clint Yeastwood]

Thanks for the suggestion.

I can tell when the foam fell off, because there is a big dip on the Inkbird graph.

 

[marc1]

Well, it turns out tape does not like sticking to Torpedo kegs. This afternoon, the foam fell off. I tried electrical tape. No good. I tried medical tape--the stuff you can never get off your skin once you put it on--no good. I could not find the duck tape or gorilla tape.

I asked myself what kind of adhesive sticks to things that are wet.

Now the probe is back in place, held there by two big gauze bandages. The self-adhesive bandages they make these days will stick to anything.

I hold mine on with a few small bungee cords strung together

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[doug293cz]

Well, it turns out tape does not like sticking to Torpedo kegs. This afternoon, the foam fell off. I tried electrical tape. No good. I tried medical tape--the stuff you can never get off your skin once you put it on--no good. I could not find the duck tape or gorilla tape.

I asked myself what kind of adhesive sticks to things that are wet.

Now the probe is back in place, held there by two big gauze bandages. The self-adhesive bandages they make these days will stick to anything.

Why is the outside of your fermenter wet? I find that painter's tape (low adhesion by design) works fine when applied to a dry surface of a fermentation vessel.

Brew on

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

I think it had condensation on it.

As luck would have it, there was a can of plumber's putty on top of the fermenting fridge. It's hard and crumbly, so if someone is getting plumber's putty to work, it must be a different kind.

I got bandages to work again. I have a lot of painter's tape, so maybe I can apply some over the bandages to hold foam on.

I'm going to get some bungee cords.

 

[doug293cz]

I think it had condensation on it.

As luck would have it, there was a can of plumber's putty on top of the fermenting fridge. It's hard and crumbly, so if someone is getting plumber's putty to work, it must be a different kind.

I got bandages to work again. I have a lot of painter's tape, so maybe I can apply some over the bandages to hold foam on.

I'm going to get some bungee cords.

How did you get condensation at typical fermentation temperatures? My water supply isn't usually cold enough to get the wort down to target pitching temp, so I put my fermenters in the chest freezer, tape the temp probe under a piece of foam, and set the controller to pitching temp. No chance for condensation before I apply the tape.

Brew on

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

I don't know what happened. Maybe I got Star San spray on it.

I forgot to add Fermcap after I brewed, so in the middle of the night, I got up and added it. I used Star San in an effort to de-germ the lid.

The keg is plastered with bandages, foam, and painter's tape now.

 

[Flushot22]

Well, it turns out tape does not like sticking to Torpedo kegs. This afternoon, the foam fell off. I tried electrical tape. No good. I tried medical tape--the stuff you can never get off your skin once you put it on--no good. I could not find the duck tape or gorilla tape.

I asked myself what kind of adhesive sticks to things that are wet.

Now the probe is back in place, held there by two big gauze bandages. The self-adhesive bandages they make these days will stick to anything.

 

[jerrylotto]

Or a large rubber band or Bungie cord

 

[sibelman]

sticks to things that are wet

Captain Obvious here. Maybe tape it when the keg is dry? A water-proof tape should stick fine thereafter.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

It was dry when I put the tape on, and it got wet later. Then when I dried it off and cleaned it with window cleaner, I could not get anything to stick well. I should have pointed that out.

 

[Yesfan]

FYI - The fermometers I've used are marked every 2 degrees, but it there is a blue indicator instead of green, the temperature is between the blue and the brown. So you can read to 1 degree. And if it's turquoise (blue-green), I call it to the nearest half degree. That's not in the instructions, but it makes sense to me.

I always thought this was common knowledge. Some are easier to read than others. The circle versions from Northern Brewer, as they look cool, are hard to read in low light. The vertical strip on my Flex+ is also hard to read.

 

[doug293cz]

It was dry when I put the tape on, and it got wet later. Then when I dried it off and cleaned it with window cleaner, I could not get anything to stick well. I should have pointed that out.

I suspect that the window cleaner left a surface film on the fermenter, which is the root of your problem. You should always rinse off any cleaners, and dry well before applying tape.

Most surface films will interfere with adhesion, as at best the adhesive can only bond to the film and not the material under the film. If the tape adheres to the film, and the film adheres to the substrate (material under the film) then the tape might work ok.

Brew on

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Could be.

 

[kohalajohn]

Not really the best analogy. For most cars the thermostat doesn't actually give you a measure of temperature just opens and closes coolant flow at a particular set temperature.
The vast majority of cars actually give you an indication of coolant temperature not the oil temperature.
But it is true that fermentation is affected by the temperature of the fermenting wort/beer regardless of ambient temp.

The car anology shows the issues with varous measurement systems.

My 911 had temperature readouts for both water and for oil. When I started it up, the water temp would rise up fast. The oil temp would lag behind, and quite noticeably.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Could be.

@Clint Yeastwood , this thread is now 10 months old...

Any update on the beer(s) you've brewed since making the changes? Have you seen the result be more to your liking?

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

I had a son earlier this year, so you can probably imagine how much brewing I've gotten done. Hoping to get back on it shortly.

 

[Willy]

I had a son earlier this year, so you can probably imagine how much brewing I've gotten done. Hoping to get back on it shortly.

Congratulations Dad! And best excuse ever for an unresponsive update. Haha. Best of luck, and a future as a multi-generation of Brewers.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

I had a son earlier this year, so you can probably imagine how much brewing I've gotten done. Hoping to get back on it shortly.

Well congrats on that! I've been there--the oldest is heading off to college next fall.

I will tell you that active fermentation temp control (initially taped to the outside of the fermenter insulated by paper towels), now via thermowell) was the single biggest beer quality improvement of anything I've ever done. I personally don't think there's a meaningful difference between taped externally and a thermowell internally, so if a thermowell is added equipment you don't want to add, there's no real reason to bother.

I tend to chill the beer a few degrees below target temp before pitching yeast and then let it rise to the temp. I think one of the biggest causes of off flavors is pitching too hot. You're better off waiting 6-12 hours to pitch rather than throwing yeast in 80 degree wort IMHO.

I generally don't make starters (I use dry yeast and then repitch), but starters can be made at room temp. It's a much smaller volume to ferment so the temp rise should be smaller, and more importantly the goal isn't to make delicious beer, it's too multiply yeast. You're pouring off the fermentation product anyway, and only a tiny portion (relative to your batch of beer) will go into the fermenter.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Thanks, guys.

 

[Ninoid]

I had a son earlier this year, so you can probably imagine how much brewing I've gotten done. Hoping to get back on it shortly.

I also join in the congratulations and hope that you have a good supply of beer, since you haven't brewed for a long time, and that you're not drinking beer from the store.

 

[DuncB]

I tape sensor to the outside and ispindel on the inside.

When ferment slows down if you have the taped sensor lower on the vessel than the ispindel temp sensor position there can be a few degrees C difference in their readings.

 

[Pennine]

This thread made me wonder, is fermentation temperature the most important thing as has been said in this thread and what the pro-homebrewers always say. Or is it actually temperature consistency during fermentation. I mean US-05 has an ideal 8 degree Celsius range.

 

[BrewZer]

This thread made me wonder, is fermentation temperature the most important thing as has been said in this thread and what the pro-homebrewers always say. Or is it actually temperature consistency during fermentation. I mean US-05 has an ideal 8 degree Celsius range.

I use a big cooler bag and huge ice packs to lower fermentation temps to the mid-to-upper 60's F. At the early stages, I have to change the bags about every 8-10 hours, and the temp occasionally exceeds 70 until I change the bag. In later stages of fermentation, the temperature is a lot more stable and I can reduce the cold pack changes to about every 12 hours.

My latest batch is one of the cleanest tasting APAs I've brewed and temps ran from 66 to 71 using US-05.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

This thread made me wonder, is fermentation temperature the most important thing as has been said in this thread and what the pro-homebrewers always say. Or is it actually temperature consistency during fermentation. I mean US-05 has an ideal 8 degree Celsius range.

IMHO it's temp.

US-05 will produce a better beer swinging back and forth between 62 and 67 degrees than at a consistent 78 degrees.

 

[Pennine]

IMHO it's temp.

US-05 will produce a better beer swinging back and forth between 62 and 67 degrees than at a consistent 78 degrees.

I wouldn't consider a change of
5f a swing really. I meant if temperatures were not controlled and the fermentation was let to rise in ambient room temperature. I have read fermentation would increase temps of the beer between 5-15f. So if in a 62f room we would see it rise to 75f during peak fermentation.

 

[bike2brew]

I have a probe in the thermo well associated with the Ss Brewtech FTS controller based on a swamp cooler ice pack system and maintain steady fermentation temperature in the 60's. I also have a Tilt floating in the fermenter. Both measurement devices generally agree throughput my 21 day fermentation process. Temperature control was the single most important variable in improving the quality of my brewing.

 

[DonT]

This thread made me wonder, is fermentation temperature the most important thing as has been said in this thread and what the pro-homebrewers always say. Or is it actually temperature consistency during fermentation. I mean US-05 has an ideal 8 degree Celsius range.

It's both, really. Temp swings stress the yeastie-beasties, which could give you off-flavors, or just inconsistent results. Consider some Belgian strains like "Abbaye (at higher temps) will impart tropical, spicy and banana flavors and aromas. When fermenting at lower temperatures, the flavors and aromas become that of darker fruits, such as raisin, date and fig."
This is why I use a SS fermenter and a glycol chiller...

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

I wouldn't consider a change of
5f a swing really. I meant if temperatures were not controlled and the fermentation was let to rise in ambient room temperature. I have read fermentation would increase temps of the beer between 5-15f. So if in a 62f room we would see it rise to 75f during peak fermentation.

Ahh. Got it.

However, I stand by the point. Don't let a yeast like US-05 run up to 75F. You're gonna get off flavors at that temp. Pitching at 62 and then letting it ramp to 75 is a lot better than pitching at 75, IMHO. But still not optimal to let the temp run up that high.

 

[ncbrewer]

How to Brew E4 cautions not to over-cool more than 2 degrees F below the set point. I use a swamp cooler and try to keep the beer temperature as steady as possible.

 

[Pennine]

How to Brew E4 cautions not to over-cool more than 2 degrees F below the set point. I use a swamp cooler and try to keep the beer temperature as steady as possible.

Interesting, yeah I wonder if downward swings may also be potentially detrimental to the fermentation too.

 

[RyPA]

I recently installed a thermowell on my All Rounder. Much easier and accurate temperature monitoring.

 

[ncbrewer]

Interesting, yeah I wonder if downward swings may also be potentially detrimental to the fermentation too.

Palmer's statement was about downward swings in particular. I don't remember if he said anything about upward swings - didn't see it with a quick speed-read. I think he's concerned about the yeast getting sleepy when the temperature drops.

 

[DuncB]

I recently installed a thermowell on my All Rounder. Much easier and accurate temperature monitoring.

Unless you are measuring the temp in several places at once how do you know this?

 

[shoengine]

As far as painters tape coming off, I had the same issues with my SS brew bucket sweating while fermenting. Tape would loosen and I would find the probe on the floor. Starting the tape on the foam and wrapping all around and ending back on the foam fixed that problem.

With thermowells, the unsightly foam and tape are all gone now.

 

[RyPA]

Unless you are measuring the temp in several places at once how do you know this?

I understand that I do not know the temperature of every cubic inch of wort. At the same time, you cannot independently heat or cool every cubic inch of wort. I am comfortable knowing the temp at the middle and then heating or cooling accordingly.

 

[Halfakneecap]

How accurate do you need to be?

I go by consistency. My probe is taped to the outside of the fermenter which is inside a temp controlled refridgerator. I'm not going to get more high tech than that, and am happy with the final product.

What would be the point of knowing the top of your fermentor is 2c different to the bottom ? What would/could you do to change it?



Does anyone use more than one temp probe in their fermentor? Genuinely curious. If so, what do you do if they have different readings?

 

[DuncB]

Sometimes I have the beer temp probe taped to the side of my fermentasaurus, the ispindel floating in the beer / wort and then I may stick the " fridge " temp probe on the lower part of the conical. There can be 3 to 4 C difference between the top temp probe and the bottom during active ferment.

 

[bike2brew]

My temperature probe in the thermowell is in general agreement with the Tilt hydrometer floating in the fermenter. Close enough for me.

 

[corkybstewart]

How do you get your starters down to those temperatures before pitching?

The starters are easy. In the morning I put the flask in the fridge to make the yeast drop out. I then remove the flask and let it warm up. As my wort is chilling and close to pitching temp i pour the liquid from the starter and replace it with the cooled wort and let the yeast get active.
To cool my wort I use a counterflow chiller using my 65F well water sitting in an ice bath. It gets ten gallons of wort to 60F in 20 minutes(usually). At 60 i transfer the wort to the conical, pitch the yeast and rinse the flask to get the maximum yeast out.