Hot fermentation temps. How "off" will it taste

[Ooompa Loompa]

Okay, so we are having a hot summer in CO. I haven't brewed yet this summer not because of that but because I didn't have a job. Well I'm employed now, so I ordered ingredients for 3 batches of beer. I brewed the first one Thursday night. It was my Colorado Cream Ale except that I pitched Nottingham instead of Wyeast 1028. I put the carboy in a large bucket of water with an ice pack in my closet in my bedroom (coldest area in my condo) and put a wet towel over it. Pitching temp was around 72. I woke up this morning, changed out the ice packs,and checked the temp and it was still around 72. I knew that was a little warm, but I've brewed beers at that temp before and never had too many off flavors. Well it was a hot all day today, and when I got home from work tonight I went to see how it was doing, and the temp was all the way up to 78 So I switched out the ice pack, got the water on the towel cooler, and that was about all I could do. So the question is, how "off" do you think the flavors will be? A little bit of fruity esters I don't think would hurt this beer too much, but obviously I don't want them overpowering it.

 

[ScubaSteve]

You'll never know until you try it I recently did the bathtub trick....and I found that if I closed the door to the bathroom, the a/c vent would really keep it colder in there than the rest of the house. The tub full of water would hold temp well due to the thermal mass, and I could keep it at 65-68 when the a/c was actually at 72-75. Any way to redirect an a/c vent into your closet?

The beer may have more fusels/esters, but will still clean up if you give it time....maybe a few more weeks.

 

[Tonedef131]

I have found that you really need to be getting into the high 70 before getting any noticeable fusels. Of course how evident they will be might depend on the style and a cream ale would probably show them pretty easily. Give it a few extra days in the primary to help clean up and funny flavors and you will be fine.

 

[Ooompa Loompa]

You'll never know until you try it I recently did the bathtub trick....and I found that if I closed the door to the bathroom, the a/c vent would really keep it colder in there than the rest of the house. The tub full of water would hold temp well due to the thermal mass, and I could keep it at 65-68 when the a/c was actually at 72-75. Any way to redirect an a/c vent into your closet?

The beer may have more fusels/esters, but will still clean up if you give it time....maybe a few more weeks.

Unfortunately I don't have AC. Thanks for the comments though guys. Sounds like leaving it in the primary longer will help out some too, so I'll definately do that. Time will tell.

 

[mew]

I have found that you really need to be getting into the high 70 before getting any noticeable fusels.

I think it depends on the yeast as well as temperature. Nottingham is a pretty clean yeast, so you shouldn't have too many fusels. I did a mild using Fermentis S-04 at 73 F ambient, and it's good, but it tastes very much like New Belgium's Abbey.

 

[Revvy]

Since every yeast is different as is every recipe, there is really no way to tell..but even if you have problems, it may not be hopeless...

Read my story;

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=73254

(You never know what your yeasties can do...)

 

[WBC]

Until you get a fridge or freezer and controller you will always be taking a chance. It's just not that expensive to have great beer all the time.

 

[FishinDave07]

I find that you get more longevity through adding frozen 2 liter bottles along with the wet-towel trick. If you still cant get good temp control, i would brew a more forgiving beer like saisons or wheats. Mmm...i love me my dirty wheats.

 

[Ooompa Loompa]

Since every yeast is different as is every recipe, there is really no way to tell..but even if you have problems, it may not be hopeless...

Read my story;

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=73254

(You never know what your yeasties can do...)

Great write up Revvy. I had no intention of dumping it, and I figured it would be at least drinkable someday, but hopefully with some aging it will come out not just drinkable, but turn instead to be a great beer.

 

[Ooompa Loompa]

I find that you get more longevity through adding frozen 2 liter bottles along with the wet-towel trick. If you still cant get good temp control, i would brew a more forgiving beer like saisons or wheats. Mmm...i love me my dirty wheats.

I don't like wheats, so I won't go that route, but saisons I may look into. Either that or just brew like crazy during winter months so that when summer comes I don't have to worry about brewing at all. (I don't really like that option though, cuz I do love brewing.)

 

[Kauai_Kahuna]

You really need to look at a son of Sam, or other insulated chamber, you still have to change out the ice but it last much longer. Even double stacking rubbermaid buckets, water, ice and a towel will last 12 hours plus.

 

[sonetlumiere85]

I love how everyone on here assumes that people have unlimited space and resources. Newsflash: some people don't have gigantic houses with garages/basements/etc. Most of us don't even have A/C. This is a topic I'm also interested in, but not in the "buy something to fix it" approach.

 

[Kai]

I love how everyone on here assumes that people have unlimited space and resources. Newsflash: some people don't have gigantic houses with garages/basements/etc. Most of us don't even have A/C. This is a topic I'm also interested in, but not in the "buy something to fix it" approach.

Whoa now - is much anger in this one. You need to realise that the majority of those around here, while they might not have unlimited space and resources, generally have a house and a reasonable job. We starving students etc are the minority. It is not extravagant or condescending for them to suggest spending fifty bucks on a craigslist fridge or a DIY cooler. They share what worked for them - what else should they do?

Frankly, with a budget of zero, you're not going to work out anything better than ice bath / towel refrigeration. It's what I use; I keep my eyes open for free fridges within two-man-lugging distance, and next paycheque I'll consider investing in an SOFC, but I don't complain that the rest of the world doesn't tailor their responses to my unusual situation.

 

[Yooper]

I love how everyone on here assumes that people have unlimited space and resources. Newsflash: some people don't have gigantic houses with garages/basements/etc. Most of us don't even have A/C. This is a topic I'm also interested in, but not in the "buy something to fix it" approach.

Well, if a cooler for $20 is out of your budget, maybe a different hobby is in order. I mean, I'm pretty sure that two rubbermaid buckets and bottles of ice won't cost more than that. (The post just above yours is the one I'm referring to). If you can't "buy something to fix it", then make it as you'd like and don't change a thing. If someone asks about cooling down their fermenter, I'm going to assume they don't want a response like, "Well, most people can't afford big houses or air conditioning, so, sucks to be you..........". How about something helpful- like a cooler with bottles of ice, a towel, a fan, air conditioning, a fridge, etc. They can then choose their solution based on their available recources. I've done most of those solutions and can give a pretty good opinion on what can work. Or would you rather just post a critical remark?

You know, one thing that really bugs me is that some people don't respond at all, except with negative remarks. My momma always told me, "If you can't say something nice.....................".

 

[nickhead]

Newsflash: That wasn't helpful.

I too live in CO (moved 2 years ago) and agree that it's been a hellish summer indeed. The temp in CO fluctuates so much from day to night, it is difficult to keep within a decent range. I tried the basement and got maybe 74 degrees (if i'm lucky) at night and 78-80 during the day. Not good. I moved all 3 of my current batches up to my bedroom and put them in front of an Aspen Cooler (which I just discovered - i'm from the east, so had no idea that this was an air conditioner of sorts thought it was a fan)

Anyway, I'm down to 62-66 degrees, which is great - but it uses up electricity and wastes money and blah blah.

What do you guys use? How many fermenters can you fit in a standard fridge (my roommate and I are concerned that a fridge won't fit enough)? I've seen heater things you wrap around the fermenter... but is there no magical home brew cooling solution?

Thanks

 

[ShortSnoutBrewing]

Are any of you reading??? Get a spare tub, cooler, whatever. Fill it with cold water. Put the carboy it it. Put a wet shirt/towel/etc over the carboy. Turn on a fan and let it blow on the carboy. You can also add some ice, frozen soda bottles, etc to the water to keep the temp down. Cheap, easy and takes up maybe a tiny bit more room then just the carboy.

 

[nickhead]

Yes - I get / read that - bucket, ice, fan, towel. Check.

There is certainly more than 1 method to cool your brew. I'd like to hear about them as well as any details or helpful hints (like my question about how many carboys i could expect to fit in standard fridge) so I can make a better brew.

Edit: I'm sure there is a thread on this subject somewhere - if someone could point me in that direction I'd appreciate it.

 

[Revvy]

There seems to be miscommunication that is then leading to some tension on all parties....

Reading this thread, most of the people AREN'T suggesting you spend a lot of. What they are talking about is what I use, in my loft with only 2 closets...it is what we call around here a "swamp cooler."

It works surprisingly well. I can get the temps down to the mid to high 50's during the most crucial first 12 hours of fermentation, and that is without a fan.

Some guy here over the weekend posted one where he added a layer of insulated foam board around his, and I know of another poster who took 2 of those tubs (you can even get them at "dollar stores" for 5 bucks) Put one inside the other and filled the gap between with spray on foam insulation....Some put their fermenters in the batch tub even...

So there's plenty of options that don't have to cost big bucks....People have been making beer for millennia before the invention of AC and ronco controllers (though a lot of people seem to forget that on occasion.)

Hell, evidently my Uncle, (the black sheep of the family) during prohibition in west virginia used to keep his cool in the "crick" out back behind the police station....Except he wasn't making it "for personal consumption," if you get my drift.

 

[nickhead]

Revvy - is condensation a problem (if so, how do you deal w/ it)? And, how frequently do you change the water (not the ice, but the water itself, does it get funky after awhile)?

Do you use this setup for lagers as well?

Thanks for posting the pics.

 

[Revvy]

Revvy - is condensation a problem (if so, how do you deal w/ it)? And, how frequently do you change the water (not the ice, but the water itself, does it get funky after awhile)?

Do you use this setup for lagers as well?

Thanks for posting the pics.

I haven't had any problems with condensation, nor if there were, would it be a problem....the fermenters are closed, the only condensation would be hapenning inside the fermenter, and it would just be condensate of beer....

I don't lager, but with a fan and a regular schedule of ice bottle swapping I don't know why I couldn't...If I did I would probably wait til the winter, when the ambient temp of my place is much cooler.

I don't change the water...I add a couple of tablespoons of Iodophor to the water ever now and then...Immediately upon removing the fermenter from the bath, I dry it off and then spray it thoroughly with iodophor from my handy dandy spray bottle.

 

[nickhead]

I meant condensation on the outside of the tub... like all over your carpet.

Sorry for the question barrage, but why don't you do lagers? I did my first yesterday and it looks like poo (not expecting much from the poo batch).

Thanks - very helpful info.

ps. Avery is a few minutes from my home brew operations. Good stuff for sure.

 

[Revvy]

I meant condensation on the outside of the tub... like all over your carpet.

Sorry for the question barrage, but why don't you do lagers? I did my first yesterday and it looks like poo (not expecting much from the poo batch).

Thanks - very helpful info.

ps. Avery is a few minutes from my home brew operations. Good stuff for sure.

Never noticed on the outside....but you could put down a plastic drop cloth or a shower curtain.

I don't do lagers because I haven't had a lager that actually didn't make me want to hurl violently

 

[Yooper]

I meant condensation on the outside of the tub... like all over your carpet.

Sorry for the question barrage, but why don't you do lagers? I did my first yesterday and it looks like poo (not expecting much from the poo batch).

Thanks - very helpful info.

ps. Avery is a few minutes from my home brew operations. Good stuff for sure.

I make lagers- but lagers definitely require more stringent temperature control. Most should be fermented around 50 degrees for two weeks, then lagered at 34 degrees for 4-8 weeks. It can be done without a dedicated fridge (I do them in my igloo cooler method) but I can only do it in the winter. Even with a dedicated fridge, an external temperature controller may be needed, to get the temp up to 50 degrees.
I make many more ales than lagers, though- not just because it's easier, but because I like ales better as a rule anyway.

 

[nickhead]

ok cool. Good to know. I'm trying a CA steam lager right now due to the higher fermentation temp... but I don't have very high hopes for it. Thanks again.

 

[Saccharomyces]

+1 for Revvy's method. It works. And it's cheap. I use a 32 gal trash can myself, but it's exactly the same idea. Swap out a couple of blue ice bricks twice a day, and it stays in the mid 60's. In fact, next time I use my "chamber", I'm going to try adding a T-shirt over the carboy and putting a box fan over the top with 2x4s blowing air down into it, to see how much cooler I can get it. When I get that setup I'll post pics... It'll be my xmas brew (OG 1.090) so I plan to pitch *frickin' cold* and slowly warm it up so I don't blow off a gallon.

- Eric

 

[edb]

A useful tip for anyone going this route. When your filling your water bottles (poor mans icepack) fill them with some table salt, not sure if there is an ideal amount to use but it makes the ice last drastically longer. Dont believe me try this as an experiment, fill 2 20oz plastic bottles one with water the other with salt water, freeze them then pull them out to thaw and check back on them. Its mind blowing how long the salt makes the ice last.

Question for the experts:

I brewed a Brown Ale using Wyeast American Ale II 1272 unfortunately it was right in the middle of a major hot streak for us.

I pitched (no starter) at 85-90, had medium flocculation after the next day. The flocculation was definitely not as much as Wyest American Ale 1056. The fermentation temps were about 78.

I really didnt want to stress the yeast by trying to force the temp down (big temp swings) with ice packs after the fact so I let it sit in the Primary for at least 3 weeks, the temps eventually dropped down to 74-76 but thats still above the 60-72 range of the yeast. It tasted great out of the primary but when smelling the empty bottling bucket it had an alcohol smell, possibly sherry like not really sure.

Given this information how bad do you think the beer will be?

 

[Saccharomyces]

Sherry smell sounds like fusels. It'll probably taste OK but will give you a massive hangover if you drink too much at once, so go easy on it until you determine if it hurts ya.

 

[Revvy]

A useful tip for anyone going this route. When your filling your water bottles (poor mans icepack) fill them with some table salt, not sure if there is an ideal amount to use but it makes the ice last drastically longer. Dont believe me try this as an experiment, fill 2 20oz plastic bottles one with water the other with salt water, freeze them then pull them out to thaw and check back on them. Its mind blowing how long the salt makes the ice last.

Question for the experts:

I brewed a Brown Ale using Wyeast American Ale II 1272 unfortunately it was right in the middle of a major hot streak for us.

I pitched (no starter) at 85-90, had medium flocculation after the next day. The flocculation was definitely not as much as Wyest American Ale 1056. The fermentation temps were about 78.

I really didnt want to stress the yeast by trying to force the temp down (big temp swings) with ice packs after the fact so I let it sit in the Primary for at least 3 weeks, the temps eventually dropped down to 74-76 but thats still above the 60-72 range of the yeast. It tasted great out of the primary but when smelling the empty bottling bucket it had an alcohol smell, possibly sherry like not really sure.

Given this information how bad do you think the beer will be?

Go read the post I linked about not dumping your beer...it will give you an idea

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=73254

 

[edb]

Thanks for the replies, I wasnt going to dump it thats too drastic even for me. Aging sounds like the route that I may have to go.

 

[Seawolfe]

We have no temperature control - just plunk em in the shower in the garage (which probably got up to 85 this summer). Basically we try to brew seasonally, and use yeasts that don't mind warmer temps in the summer. In the winter we get weeks of 40-50 something degrees, so we work on lagers and pilsners etc then. I wouldn't know a fusel if it bit me, so we must be doing something right

 

[Saccharomyces]

OK here's my temp control.

Ambient room temp is 73. With the wet T-shirt and fan it is steady at 65 without the ice. With a few pounds of ice swapped twice a day it has been holding at 62.

Trash can: $11 at H.D.
Box fan: $12 at Wally World
Ice: free
Perfect fermentation temps: priceless

 

[strohs]

I have had Notty take off on me twice and ferment out in the mid to upper 70s and I have never had any bad off flavors

 

[Dr Vorlauf]

I am testing some warm fermented Nottingham vs US 05 right now. Left a glass carboy in the garage @ 80 F with the Nottingham and the US 05 portion is in the basement at 70F.

The Nottingham batch fermented out in 1 day. US 05 still working.

 

[Kauai_Kahuna]

OK here's my temp control.
Trash can: $11 at H.D.
Box fan: $12 at Wally World
Ice: free
Perfect fermentation temps: priceless

Can I just point out to people, you don't really need a fan that big.
Also, Ice has a cost, but minor.
Swamp coolers really work, but can be a pain to swap out ice everyday.
The real key is to keep the yeast in their "happy" zone, it makes such a difference in the beer. I don't know too many people who want to drop 30 to 40 dollars on a batch, and then ruin it by having it ferment at very high temps and ending up with something unexpected.

 

[Saccharomyces]

Can I just point out to people, you don't really need a fan that big.

I stole it from BierMuncher's foam control.

Also, Ice has a cost, but minor.

I'm reusing the gel ice packs, they are about $2 each and last forever. Or you can use 20oz plastic soda bottles filled with water to 1" from the top. I have both, depending on how much I want to drop the temp.

 

[SilverKing]

+1 to the cooler idea. Here's my setup:

Igloo cooler keeps things cold easily. I have it at a rock steady 60degrees with minimal effort. Twice a day I stir the water a bit and toss in a ice bottle or two. I have 20oz and 8oz depending on what it needs. Once I get the water cold on brew day it's easy to keep there. My apartment hovers around 74 during the summer.

The orange strap keeps the bucket in place. It likes to float around when the cooler is full of water.

I can take this down to the mid 50's without an issue, but it takes an extra bottle each time. This is a nice setup because my Keezer only holds 3 cornies or 1 fermenter.

Plus the cooler can stand a cornie up and get filled with ice if I need it, or just drag along to the beach.

 

[jaytee]

Son of A Fermentation Chiller works very well in Georgia!

It was cheap and works like a charm in my 90+ degree garage here near Atlanta.

http://knoxhomebrewer.com/images/stories/chiller plans.pdf

 

[weirdboy]

+1 to the cooler idea. Here's my setup:

Igloo cooler keeps things cold easily. I have it at a rock steady 60degrees with minimal effort. Twice a day I stir the water a bit and toss in a ice bottle or two. I have 20oz and 8oz depending on what it needs. Once I get the water cold on brew day it's easy to keep there. My apartment hovers around 74 during the summer.

The orange strap keeps the bucket in place. It likes to float around when the cooler is full of water.

I can take this down to the mid 50's without an issue, but it takes an extra bottle each time. This is a nice setup because my Keezer only holds 3 cornies or 1 fermenter.

Plus the cooler can stand a cornie up and get filled with ice if I need it, or just drag along to the beach.

Holy crap that looks almost exactly like my setup. I mean, that picture could have been taken at my house. Except, my cooler also doubles as my MLT so it's got a spigot in one side (that you wouldn't see in the photo).

Also, as an experiment a few weeks ago, I got mine down to below 40 and maintained it there with liberal usage of ice for the initial cooling phase, and swapping out a bottle or two of ice to maintain temps once or twice a day thereafter. I did it to cold crash a batch, but I imagine I could lager in that cooler pretty easily.

 

[Revvy]

It's alive, It's alive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Holy year old thread bumping batman!



(I'm always amazed, and pleased, to see when new members mangage to find an re-susitate old threads, while other people complain if we suggest they search to find an answer we post almost daily on here.) So good on you!!!

I'll play...

Besides the pics I posted before, this is another person's solution...just imagine it full of ice.

 

[zman]

These are all awesome ideas. I went the converted mini fridge route (since it was on clearance and I had a gift card). I am totally going to try out one of these ideas for the batch I need to get done for a wedding SWMBO and I are going to in August..

Never under estimate the power of the human spirit and ingenuity. Especially when Beer is involved.