Hops through a moka pot?

[Killinger]

Hey,

Not sure this belongs in Brewing Science, but we'll start here...

Has anyone ever tried extracting hops at high temperatures and pressures as with a moka pot? If you are unfamiliar, check here:

Moka (coffee pot) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Basically espresso differs from regular coffee mainly in that espresso is extracted at much higher temperatures and pressures. This allows for unique flavor, texture, and caffeine content from regular drip coffee due to compounds extracted only under these extreme conditions. A stovetop approximation of espresso can be made with a moka pot. It's a three chambered pot with a water reservoir in the bottom (A), a filter for ground coffee in the middle (B), and a collection vessel at the top (C). You put water in the bottom reservoir, put coffee in the middle, and place it on the stove. The water boils, is forced through the coffee, and something like espresso is the result.

OK, so I was a coffee geek before I was a beer geek (in accordance with state laws).

Anyway, I wonder if anyone has tried to process hops at high temps and pressure a la espresso. It seems to me a moka pot could be used for this. Granted, you couldn't get much product from this set-up, but still...

Does anyone know if you can get a unique flavor or aroma profile by processing hops at higher temps and pressures? Has anyone tried? Could this be the next frontier in the world of xtreme IPAs?

 

[HairyDogBrewing]

Can't think of any reason not to try.
Let us know how it turns out.
We might name the process after you (ie Randallizing).

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Sounds like you'd def get something. Here's a thread I made about home-distilling 'hop water'. I only just last night dumped one of those jars of it (the 'first runnings' jar which was only 5 oz. remaining) into a keg with only about 2.5 gal. of beer. Will taste tonight. I have only tried a little bit of it in the bottom of a glass before pouring (too much 'raw hop' flavor/aroma).

I'm going out on a limb here but I think the 'hop water' I made had a lot of the hop hydrocarbons in it because it had a very 'raw hop' flavor/aroma. That's not really what I want. I think what I want are the oxidized compounds of those hydrocarbons (what I scientifically call 'the beery hop-aroma').

EDIT: Probably more of a 'General Techniques' thread.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Yup. I tried it: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/hop-espresso-experiment-76447/ It worked alright, but the hop flavor was quite harsh and I'm not convinced it was any more bitter than just tossing them in the boil.

I find throwing hops directly in the kettle (no mesh bag) works better than anything else....especially when combined with a hop back.

 

[potatoe]

I cant really see the advantage here. I am by trade a coffee roaster, so I spend quite a bit of time thinking about these sorts of things. Moka pots dont create enough pressure in my opinion to take to much out of coffee any more than other extraction methods. You are not going to get nine bars like you will on a commercial machine with a pump, (try getting a stable crema out of a moka pot sometime.) Other than that, your not going to get any temperatures hotter than boiling, So I dont see why you would get any more AAs out of your hops. Seems kind of hokey to me.

 

[Killinger]

Let me rephrase the question...

Does exposing hops to higher than atmospheric pressures and higher than 212 degrees F result in unique bitterness, flavor, and aroma profiles relative to standard extraction in the boil? One might try to increase pressure and temps via a moka pot. It's something I happen to have. Another option might be a pressure cooker. I don't have one of those, though.

I don't know the answer. I'm not trying to find an advantage. I'm just curious. I'm not trying to get more AAs. It's just a thought. I asked if the result would be a different profile.

I know that a moka pot does not make espresso. I said it was an approximation. There is virtually no crema in moka coffee. I know. <>. !=. Right.

 

[batfishdog37]

How long would the hops be in the pot for? Would the hop oils have enough time to isomerize to the desired level? Maybe the high pressure would provide interesting flavors. Good idea I think.

 

[TheChemist]

The temp and pressure shouldn't make a difference for aa extraction, I wouldn't think...it might break down the essential oils and various flavour compounds into something less tasty though...

If you were to use an alkaline water though, that should make for a great deal of difference in IBU efficiency from your hops.

 

[Likefully]

Yup. I tried it: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/hop-espresso-experiment-76447/ It worked alright, but the hop flavor was quite harsh and I'm not convinced it was any more bitter than just tossing them in the boil.

I like digging up old threads (rather than starting my own).

Any update on doing this with a mocha pot?

I see the experiment above is done with a espresso unit.

Although a mocha pot is similar it is different enough to potentially create a very different result.

You could use really low heat under the mocha so that you get a drawn out steaming process. I think that may draw the beta acids (aroma) out nicely (I think, with my limited knowledge about chemistry).

I would only think of doing this to make a hop tea, with aroma hops, that is added at bottling.