Hoppo's E-Brewery Build

[Hoppopotomus]

I appreciate it fellas! Sounds like HBT has fixed their issues, as I just received a PM from the administration stating that the problems have been fixed. Although I haven't had time to comb through my threads I'll take their word that the pictures are viewable once again.

 

[Hoppopotomus]

OK....so I had a lengthy discussion with my wife and she is comfortable with me purchasing controls for the brewery after my next profit sharing draw. In the meantime, I want to knock out the ventilation. Obviously the vent hood is build and installed. Now I need to order the fan to create the ventilation. I have found multiple vortex in-line centrifugal fans on Ebay. I would prefer to drill the smallest hole as possible out of the back bond of my house for venting. I have found many 4" and 6" versions of these types of fan. The 4" fans range from 170 to 200 cfm and the 6" fans are around 400 cfm. The distance from the ventilation hood to the back wall there the vent will terminate is about 20 ft. Would a 4", 200 cfm vortex fan be sufficient or should I go with the bigger? I would much prefer to drill a 4" hole through the bond, as I alread have the hole saw, but want the venting to work properly. Any suggestions??????

 

[tmcmaster007]

I can tell you that I have an in-line fan (designed for hydroponics) that is 4" 165cfm. It pulls from about 8 feet away and exits (after fan) about 4 feet through dryer vent and creates enough suction where I can "stick" a kettle lid to the duct input. Never have any kind of heat/steam/condensation problem in my brew room. However, the fan sometimes drips when brewing in the winter.

http://www.discount-hydro.com/active-air-in-line-duct-fans/

It says quiet operation, but when it's on it sounds like you are in a wind tunnel.

 

[Hoppopotomus]

Thanks for the information! Yes, I have heard that the vortex fans (even the little ones) are pretty powerful. I am leaning towards the 4", but just wanted some feedback. I plan on installing drop ceiling in my brewing room and will go with panels that are rated higher for noise reduction. I have heard that these fans are a little noisy, so maybe I can tone it down to a dull roar.

I have also heard others mention that at times they get some condensation buildup that causes dripping from the fan. I will certainly take that into consideration when determining how far upstream to place the fan. thanks!

 

[southwoodbrew]

4" wasn't enough for my basement brewery. I ended up upgrading to a 6" in-line. I got a 440CFM model on ebay for $75 with free shipping. works great.

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

I basement brew with a woefully undersized fan. On the plus side - it still pulls enough moisture out to keep the whole room from getting muggy or anything. On the down side, the inside of my hood gets soaked, and it's clear that more moisture is condensing on the hood than is being pulled out.

I'll give you a little saying that I remind myself of, regardless of whether the project is small or huge (especially when it's huge...) - No one ever looks back at a finished project and says "damn, I'm really glad I cut corners". Sure, you might save yourself a little headache and expenes by using the 4" saw you already have, but with the distances you're going and the quality of your work thus far, it may be worth the extra few bucks for a bigger fan and a bigger hole saw.

-Kevin

 

[Hoppopotomus]

Thanks guys....you talked me into it. I'm going with the 6", just gotta do a little shopping around.

 

[Hoppopotomus]

Sorry it's been a while, but I have been busy with another new business venture. Now that my time is gradually freeing back up, I have started to make a little more progress. I ended up going with a 6" vortex centrifugal exhaust fan. It's a Truite 2910 rpm x 440 cfm, which I found on ebay for $69 with shipping included, so not a bad deal at all. Should do the trick!

 

[rvklein]

Sorry it's been a while, but I have been busy with another new business venture. Now that my time is gradually freeing back up, I have started to make a little more progress. I ended up going with a 6" vortex centrifugal exhaust fan. It's a Truite 2910 rpm x 440 cfm, which I found on ebay for $69 with shipping included, so not a bad deal at all. Should do the trick!

Did yours come with a lighter with a pot leaf on it like mine did?

 

[Hoppopotomus]

This fan is fickin' enormous! Much bigger than I expected, so I ran into some clearance issues. I already have existing duct work for my HVAC, water lines to my kitchen, a gas line, and drains throughout the joist spaces above the ventilation hood, so my placement isn't perfect. I ended up having to locate is futher back on the roof of the hood and slightly off centered to the right. I have a little OCD when it comes to symmetry, so although it bothers me, I have not choice because I only have one joist space that will work to run the 6" duct work out of the back of the house. Thankfully, the BK is located to the right side of my setup, so I guess I can justify it. I was going to install some kind of a duct supply into the top of the hood and mount the fan upstream a ways, but decided to mount it directly to the top of the hood. I will come up with a way to trim it out.....maybe with a decorative HVAC supply vent.

 

[Hoppopotomus]

Did yours come with a lighter with a pot leaf on it like mine did?

No....mine came in "Discrete Packaging". However, ever since I did the search for vortex fans on ebay, I'm constantly being bombarded with advertisements for grow lights, carbon filters, etc. Maybe that will be my next venture?

 

[Hoppopotomus]

OK....a couple of final pics. I already had wired in a light switch on the backsplash over my Ale Chamber that feeds an outlet up high next to the ventilation hood. Now with the flick of a switch on goes my exhaust fan and some LED lighting for a little added touch. Just need to drill another big a$$ hole through the bond out of the back of my house and get the venting in. Ultimately, I am going with drop ceiling in the entire brewery, so you won't be able to see any of the mess (utilities, wiring, etc.) in the joist space above.

P.S. The vortex fan is a little loud, but not nearly as bad as I thought it would be. I am going to do some sound proofing around the fan housing and once the drop ceiling is in place, I shouldn't be terrribly annoying.

 

[dcbw]

I went with a 6" 400CFM ActiveAir fan, reduced to 4" duct through a glass-block window because 6" diamond hole saws are frickin expensive and the glass block was 5x7. The fan is attached directly to the rear of the hood, not the top. My hood is 12" tall, 32" deep, and 72" wide and about 20" off the top of the kettles. The fan doesn't pull enough air to exhaust all the steam from my 20" diameter kettle without a flare I built on the bottom of my hood (think Darth Vader helmet-type flare). Possibly due to the 6->4 reducer, which might restict the CFM too much? There's only 12" of 4" duct though, it's a straight short run out the window.

Also, during the winter, water condenses quickly right inside the fan, and by the end of a brew session you hear the fan blades sloshing water around. I removed a screw from the fan casing to let the water drip out, but of course the inside of the fan is pressurized, and the water sprays out while the fan is on.

All in all, I think the ventilation is the only piece of my brewery that hasn't worked out well so far. So plan yours well if you dont want to be disappointed

How tall is your hood, how far is the edge above the kettles, and are you going with a 6" hole or a 4" hole in the house wall?

 

[Hoppopotomus]

I went with a 6" 400CFM ActiveAir fan, reduced to 4" duct through a glass-block window because 6" diamond hole saws are frickin expensive and the glass block was 5x7. My hood is 12" tall, 32" deep, and 72" wide and about 20" off the top of the kettles. The fan doesn't pull enough air to exhaust all the steam from my 20" diameter kettle without a flare I built on the bottom of my hood (think Darth Vader helmet-type flare).

How tall is your hood, how far is the edge above the kettles, and are you going with a 6" hole or a 4" hole in the house wall?

I'll take some measurements. I am not reducing to 4", going 6" all the way straight out of the back of the house. In the meantime, could you post a pic of your setup, so I can get an idea of exactly what you are talking about. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

Wow, that thing is HUGE. I would feel bad for helping to talk you into the 6" option, but I still think it's the way to go.

 

[Hoppopotomus]

It's all good.....I think it is going to work out just fine. Once I get the duct work installed, I'm going to run a few experiments to see how effectively the updraft draws in steam. Hopefully the 440 cfm will do the trick.

 

[dcbw]

I'll take some measurements. I am not reducing to 4", going 6" all the way straight out of the back of the house. In the meantime, could you post a pic of your setup, so I can get an idea of exactly what you are talking about. Thanks for the feedback.

The hood is 12" tall and 32" deep; about the same size as Kal's hood described here except 72" wide instead of 67". Kal also says there is about 15" between the top of the kettles and the bottom of the hood, which is about what I've got.

The fan is behind the vent on the left side of the glass block window, and the run is right out the glass block so pretty short, but of course 6->4 reduced to fit through the block.

After a few brew runs, I built a flare on the sides and the back about 8" long, coming down at a 45 degree angle from the bottom of the hood. That does help contain the steam in the hood where the exhaust fan can pull it out better, but some still escapes out the front of the hood. I just don't think the fan is strong enough to actively pull all the steam out without some escaping around the sides. I have no idea whether that's because the fan is not powerful enough, whether the 6->4 reduction is killing the CFMs, or what.

 

[Hoppopotomus]

Thanks for the pics......nice system you have there! It has been many years since I have taken physics, but I do recall learning about Bernoulli's Principle. In your application, as the steam is pushed through the duct work by the fan and comes to the reduction point (6" down to 4"), a couple of things occur. Through the 4" port there is a considerable increase in pressure created due to the reduced volume within the duct, which increases the velocity of the steam as it exits the exhaust port. However, this in turn causes a considerable drop in pressure in the larger 6" duct, which considerably slows down the velocity of air flow. I guess you can thing about it as back pressure, which reduces your fan's ability create an adequate vacuuming effect to pull air into the fan. There are formulas to figure out exactly how much of a drop may be occurring, but I would guess that if you didn't reduce down your duct work, your system would be far more efficient at drawing the steam into the hood. Again, I am certainly not a physicist, I'm a physical therapist, but I do think that this may be the case. Make sense?

 

[Hoppopotomus]

Well, I got the green light from my wife to purchase a control panel for the brewery. I really only want to spend about $1500 on it total, so I'm really torn at this point. For about this price, I could order an already assembled 30 amp., 2 element, BCS control panel from www.ebrewsupply.com, which comes with lots of goodies like the power cord for the panel, locking plugs for my chugger pumps, 4 temperature probes, etc........OR I could order the unassembled control panel from Kal, which is pretty damn cool and has more of the bells and whistles, but all of the items such as power cords, plugs, probes, etc. are not included. I would also have to spend who knows how long assembling this thing.

What's the concensus from those who have researched both panels? Any and all feedback would be fantastic!

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

I sourced and built my own. For me, having something I made was worth the time and effort. There were times wiring / trouble shooting that I wanted to throw it out the window... but I'm glad I did it now. On the one hand, you strike me as the kind of guy who likes the DIY life (not sure where I got that idea...) but on the other hand, it's already obvious that you've DIY'd the bejesus out of your brewery, so an OTS control panel wouldn't be the end of the world.

30 amps - would restrict you to one element at a time, which means not using the BK to help heat strike or sparge water to get to temp quicker, and no back-to-back batches. If that doesn't bother you and the lack of bells, whistles, and "I made that" factor isn't a concern, go with the ebrewsupply one - I bought some stuff from them (not a full blown CP) and they were easy to work with. I don't think you'd be disappointed.

-Kevin

 

[Carlscan26]

They have a 50 amp package for $1600 - just barely outside your goal budget...

 

[Hoppopotomus]

They have a 50 amp package for $1600 - just barely outside your goal budget...

I know, but I already have the 10 guage wire in the wall and back to my service panel connected to a 30 amp. GFCI breaker. Although I would love to have the capability to use both elements at the same time for obvious reasons that BNB mentioned, I really don't want to rip out the 40 lineal feet of wire 10 guage wire (which is covered with drywall at this point and stapled to the stud per code) and snake 6 guage down the wall and run it back to a 50 amp. GFCI. I wired everything long ago to accommodate Kal's original 30 amp. panel and already spent a couple hundred bucks on it, so I am going to roll with it.

Taking a step up from 5 gallon batches that I currently brew the old fashion way (on my patio or in my garage) up to 10 gallon batches should cut down on the need to do back to backers like I routinely have done in the past. I honestly feel that once I have all of my brewing equipment housed in one spot (ie....my brewery) and no longer have to spend an hour setting up and an hour cleaning up and tearing down, it will make brewing way more convenient. Rather than knocking out 2 or 3 five gallon batches in one day every couple of months, it will be far less of a hastle and much more enjoyable to brew more often.

Yes, I am a die hard DIY'er and a firm believer in never paying for something that I can do for myself. However, in this instance I have no background in advanced electrical wiring required for a project of this nature. Sure I have no problem doing basic household electrical work, but this stuff seems a bit overwhelming. Not to mention, I hear people mentioning the hours that they have devoted to building their panels, and I am not sure if I have that kind of time to devote to it. I just opened my 3rd PT practice this week and it's still requiring quite a bit of my time. I am leaning towards just buying the plug and go assembled panel to drastically speed up the process of finishing my brewery. Hell, I still have about 400 sq. ft. of floor tile to lay, all of the grouting yet to do, the duct work for the exhaust fan, and finish sanding/polishing my kegs. I had to take a several month hiatus in the build to devote time to my newest business, so I'm getting a little impatient at this point.

I still haven't decided conclusively which way I want to go, so feel free to chime in if you have any direct experience with either system that I am considering. Thanks for the feedback thus far!

 

[MadGus]

Build it yourself, hoppo! I'm on batch 6 of the new system and I wouldn't change a thing... because I designed it specifically for my process.

You can build a great panel for $1500. Ebrewsupply was one of the main vendors I used. They have good prices on individual components - their kits don't create much discount versus buying individual components from them. (At least 10 months ago, they did not.)

 

[dcbw]

my panel was about $750, and if I'd gone most of the way to a Kal panel (ie with interlock) it would have been 850 or so. I had fun and learned a lot with my panel, but it took me a few months of on and off work. Advice: get a good crimper, I didn't so I crimped and soldered all my terminals which took more time.

Ask yourself if you want to spend the time, if you'll have fun doing it.. If you will and you do, the go definitely build it yourself. It'll be a lot cheaper, but you will certainly spend time on it.

 

[Hoppopotomus]

I hear you guys.....I'm just still really on the fence. I had Ryan at www.ebrewsupply.com price out a complete DIY BCS 30 amp./2 element unassembled control panel with all of the other goodies that he includes with the panel such as the 4 temp. probes, twist lock plugs for the elements and pumps, the power supply cord/with twist lock plug, etc., etc. and his price was $1100. I'm sure if I took the time to source all of the parts myself, I could do better, but I simply don't have the time to piece everything together myself. For $1450, I can get everything fully assembled and ready to go out of the box, including all of the extras that he includes. On the flip side of the coin is Kal's panel, which is the same price for the unassembled version. Honestly, I really love Kal's panel with all of the extra bells and whistles........plus it looks damn cool. If the enclosure came cnc cut for all of the components and I could cut that step out of the equation, I would likely go thru the process of building his. However, a lot of the extra things that Ryan includes with his assembled panel cost extra with Kal's, so there are savings with the prior. DAMN IT!!!! Too many decisions.

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

So despite being a lover of all things DIY (I have half a boat engine and an outdrive in my garage, despite me not having ever turned a wrench on a boat before last week), I'd have to say go pre-built. You've already got a huge DIY going on, and you've got a lot going on in the personal / professional world. If you work hard and make good money, some times it's worth it to pay a little bit more to make life easier for you. Could you build it? Sure - even with basic wiring knowledge, you'd have the help of the board and a wiring diagram and you'd be golden. It might take a few days, or weeks, or even a month based on other comittments though.

Spend the extra few bucks, get a panel you know works, and you can start brewing NOW. Plus, you can invest the time you would have spent on the panel into finishing the last few bits of the brewery - those parts that we always put off... otherwise 5 years down the road you'll have a hand-built panel and still no grout on the tile because it got put off and put off and eventually... 'eh... who needs grout...' - at least, that's how long drawn-out projects seem to go for me.

So I'd have to cast a vote, in this particular scenario, for spending the extra few bucks, saving yourself a ton of time and headache, and finally get the point where you can start turning water and grain and hops into beer!

-Kevin

 

[Hoppopotomus]

Couldn't have said it better myself! Thanks man.

 

[Hoppopotomus]

After much thought, I placed me order with Ryan at www.ebrewsupply.com for the 30 amp assembled panel and the power cords for my heating elements, which should arrive in a couple of weeks. Today, my wife roped me into going shopping with her, but when I get home, I'm going to start doing the final finish on the wood work in the brewery. Essentially, all I have left to do in the brewery is tile the floor and grout. Almost there.

 

[Hoppopotomus]

Sorry it has been a while guys. I got my control panel from Ryan at www.ebrewsupply.com via UPS yesterday. I haven't had time to hook it up yet, but asthetically it looks really nice and the wiring is exceptionally clean. I'm really glad I decided to purchase the preassembled version, as I have been way too bogged down with work to devote much time to the brewery. It's the 30 amp./2 element BCS panel with built in WiFi. Ryan has been great to work with and since I am IT challenged, he offered to walk me through the set up and networking over the phone. I have an extra HDTV wall mount that I may try to modify to mount this thing on the wall.

 

[Hoppopotomus]

While I was at it I painted my fermentation chamber temp. control panel to match the new brewery control panel. I also ordered the wire and water tight adapters for my heating elements. Ryan's panel includes the plugs for the heating elements and he threw in the braided expandable material to cover the wires and match the power supply cord. The cords on my chugger pumps were way too short, so I used a weatherproof junction box with water tight fittings to creat cord extensions for my pumps to reach the panel as well. He threw in the braided sleeving for that as well. I did puchase a little more of the braided material, so that I can cover the power cables for my fermentation chamber panel and some of the smaller diameter material form my temp probes to match the temp. probes that came with his panel as well. I threw the cords together last night, but Ryan forgot to put the pump twist lock plugs in the box, so he mailed them express and they should be here tomorrow.

Now I need to spend the afternoon cleaning up the kegs, so I can assemble everything.