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Hop Utilization Question

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BWRIGHT

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I'm making an extract recipe of an American Nut Brown Ale. 6.6# of LME. 2# DME. Hops are 1oz Willamete (bittering 3.8AA for 60min). Willamette 4.5AA last 15min. And Galena finishing hops 13.1AA for last 5min. My question is, the recipe calls for a partial boil of 2Gallons of water. I'm doing a full boil with 6Gallons. What, if any, changes should I make to the hop schedule. I don't want the hops to overpower. I know that doing a full boil will increase the hop utilization. Any suggestions?
 

Poindexter

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Most folks here use the tables written by Mr. Rager. I use the table written by Mr. Tensith.

For me to help you I need to know the SG of the 2 gal recipe and the SG of the 6 gal recipe.

Also, are you adding your *ME at (60), (15), (flameout) or (other)?
 
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BWRIGHT

BWRIGHT

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SG for 2G boil is 1.059-1.063. Don't know what the SG for my 6G boil should be. I'm planning on adding the ME at 60mins. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only advantage of doing a late addintion of ME is to keep the color on the lighter side. I'm using 6.6# of LME so It's going to be dark no matter what I do. I'm not concerned with color but is there any other advantages of doing a late addition?
 

Poindexter

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Hop Utilization is a function of time and gravity. The equations usually only reach down to about 1.030, but in general if you use low gravity and a long boil you get more complete utilization, where if you have a higher gravity and a shorter boil you get less utilization, or lower hopU.

Does that kinda make sense?

So if you add all your *ME at (60) then your gravity is higher all the way through and you need more hops compared to if you added the *ME at flame out--> to get to the same bitterness.

Probably you'll get a little bit of hot break by boiling your *ME, but I encourage you to keep an eye on the general topic of "late *ME" as your skills develop.

BRB, I think you brew is going to end up as 6gal of ~1.060, but I gotta double check so I don't end up with my foot in my mouth.
 

Poindexter

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8# of *ME in 2 gallons should give you a boiling gravity of 1.130.

Papzain, companion, 3rd ed, pp 281.

Same page, your hopU @ (60) is ~21%, at (15) you are only getting 6%.

8# in 6 gallons puts the SG of the boil near 1.060, (60)U ~28-29% and (15) ~8%.

So you should need ""about"" 25-30% less hops doing a full boil. Then if you add the *ME at flameout you can (possibly) use even less hops. But you will use more propane doing the full boil I bet.
 
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BWRIGHT

BWRIGHT

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OK I understand the hop utilization, but how do you figure I will end up with 6G when I'm boiling it for 60min? I've started with 6.25G before and it ended up at pretty close to 5G. I'm doing my boil on a stovetop with a 30qt pot that has about a 15" dia.
 
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BWRIGHT

BWRIGHT

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OK I understand the hop utilization, but how do you figure I will end up with 6G after a 60min boil? I've done 6.25G before and got pretty close to 5G. I brewing on a stove top with a 30qt pot that has about a 15" diameter. By the way, I just had my second boil over, DAMN. Luckily it was before I added my hops.
 
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BWRIGHT

BWRIGHT

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Sorry about the double post. Boil over has got me flustered. I omitted about 10% of my bittering hops. Should I decrease the other hop additions as well?
 

Poindexter

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Sorry. I am relaxing hard in my time zone right now. Somewhere there is a Canadian doing a 23liter batch soon and I had you confused with him.

http://realbeer.com/hops/FAQ.html#units

Volume is also a factor when calculating hopU.

On PM stuff I tend to keep my kettle volume right around 3 gallons and add my *ME at flameout. I used to need/ want the hot break, but the hopU math is much easier adding the *ME at flameout and just letting it steep a few minutes.

Slodg.
 

Poindexter

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BWRIGHT said:
Sorry about the double post. Boil over has got me flustered. I omitted about 10% of my bittering hops. Should I decrease the other hop additions as well?

You are making this right now and I am drinking?

Yah, decrease them all. I don't disect whole hops, just get to the nearest 0.1 ozs or nearest 2-3 grams. It will be close enough.
 

Poindexter

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Well start marking up your spoon son.

What I do is all the math and stuff while I am sober, and then crack a cold one as soon as Iget the fire lit under the mash tun. Follow the recipe. This math on the fly stuff is for you young people.
 
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BWRIGHT

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well Poindexter, my friend, I am drinking too. Enjoying some Sammy Smith Nut Brown Ale. Hoping this batch will come out something close to it. It is one of my favorites. I have not calculated my boil off rate yet. Any suggestions?
 

Poindexter

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I use the same kettle and spoon every time. And if Sam Smith made a whatever style I am curious about I am am gonna try it.

When ever I know exactly what volume is in my kettle, I make a mark on my spoon.

I got, minimum, marks every two quarts out to four gallons. And one quart marks everywhere near three gallons.

If I got 3.0-3.5 gallons of fresh boiled wort in my kettle and 8-10# ice in primary ( a pint is a pound the world around) I am going to have pitchable temps more or less instantly and I can dilute with room temp water to my desired volume.

If you are going to be with the same kettle and spoon for a while, mark your spoon. If not, cut notches in a stick.

I try to keep my volume "constant", +/- one quart during the boil. My hops balance comes in real close to expected, and my stove does a lot better dealing with small volume additions.

So I know my start volume, and I a run a countdown timer. My notes might say "one quart water added (45)" and "one quart water added (30)" and so on or whatever. When I am brewing I strive for "the zone". I try to do the mathletics outside the zone.

Cutting all your hops back 10% tonight will probably work fine,
 

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I really don't have much to say on the utilization, but am i the only one that thinks the hop additions sound backwards? The low AA hops are being used for bittering, while the high AA hops are being used for aroma (???). Just curiuos.
 

Poindexter

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I haven't ever used Galena. But as your boil progeresses and your volume decreases your Sg is going up so you hopU is going to go down.

What feels right?

I would cut it at least 10% like everything else, minimum. What feels right to you in your zone tonight? 15-20%

I probably wouldnt cut more than 30%.
 

Poindexter

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How many ounces of 13%AA for final are we talking? I was just looking at post one, I see the AA but no amount.

@Oompa Loompa, some brews are madewith low alpha bitter hops and high alpha flavor/ aroma. Firestone-Walker Pale is one, I happen to be a fan , though it is just a coincidence tonight.
 
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BWRIGHT

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Galena hops was 1oz. for 5 mins. I got another question maybe someone can help me with. My wort chiller upright has condensation that forms and goes straight into the pot. That doesn't seem very sanitary to me but I don't see how I can prevent it either?
 

Poindexter

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Dunno about your chiller.

Remember you only cut your (60) by 10%. If you go too low on your (15) and (5) you'll have to dry hop to reach balance, and then drink it all before it goes out of balance again.

Never brewed a brown myself. I would drop 5-10 % of the HBU/MBU for the (5) and (15). Dry hop as needed when racking to secondary, probably nothing there. Then sample the first bottle on week three after capping and finish the last bottle 4-6 weeks after the hop balance hits home.

M2c
 

citabria

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Is it better to adjust your hops and keep your boiling times the same or is it better to use the same amount of hops and adjust the time they are in the boil?
 

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It's better to keep the boil times the same, in fact, you HAVE to use the same times and quantities for flavor & aroma adds, or you will get different oil profiles.

[About the only exception is if you have a high AA% hop for flavoring, then the IBUs can change slightly with a change in boil size. 95% of the time, no adjustment is needed.]
 

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There are brewing calculators that can estimate IBU, gravity, etc., based on different factors (including length of boil/boil amount). The one I use is Tasybrew.com

It has its limitations, it isn't as good as promash, but its free and very easy to use.
 
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