Hop stands, school me

[MplsUgly]

Maybe I have been doing this and don't know it but I could use some clarification, especially on how this adds to bittering.

In the past, I have added flameout hops and started chilling and recirculating. I usually chill for about 45 min or so to get my 12 gallons down to pitch temp. I don't think beersmith adds any bittering value for this because I just list the hops as 0min. I think this is wrong.

How do you do a real hop stand/whirlpool addition? Do you add at flameout, let the temp freefall for your desired time (30-60 min) and then chill? Alternatively, do you chill to say 170, add hops and maintain that temp for your time interval and then start to chill?

How do you calculate hop bitterness contributions for either of these scenarios or is the bitterness minor from this technique?

Maybe none of this really matters? My APAs and IPAs have always been good so I'm not too worried about it but I'm looking for some extra pop on this next batch.

Any thoughts on this appreciated.

 

[Derp]

Alternatively, do you chill to say 170, add hops and maintain that temp for your time interval and then start to chill?

That's what I do, although I make no effort to maintain the temperature. I just let it sit there.

I think Beersmith does an ok job of estimating IBUs, but I don't think much bitterness is added at 170.

 

[LostHopper]

I once saw a chart/graph describing hop utilization at sub-boiling temperatures. I know you get some bittering from 200 to 180 and then it falls off. I've seen it in my experimental batches that had no bittering charge but the beer had some bitterness.

Regarding hop stands, I have just let it fall to 180 then add hops, or fall to 150 then add hops and let it fall to 120 (20 or so minutes). Then chill.
I tried chilling to 150 then adding hops but for whatever reason I liked just letting it fall.
There probably is no right or wrong way to do a hop stand at the homebrew level.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

How do you do a real hop stand/whirlpool addition? [...] Alternatively, do you chill to say 170, add hops and maintain that temp for your time interval and then start to chill?

How do you calculate hop bitterness contributions for either of these scenarios or is the bitterness minor from this technique?

Maybe none of this really matters?

I use my immersion chiller for a moment or two, to hit my desired whirlpool/hopstand temperature, then whirlpool using a chugger pump, ignorning the temperature from there.

I read a bunch of stuff about IBU extraction and did not find anything that stood out as truly authoritative. For my last New England style Pale Ale, I used CTZ to hit about 35 IBU and then used 8 ounces of whirlpool hops (Amarillo, Jarrylo, Mosaic, Eureka, Ekuanot - the least potent was 14% AA) at 170° starting temperature; the end product is not bitter at all but is very hoppy, and to my palate is ~40 IBU, give or take. In retrospect, I would have started the whirlpool another 5° warmer.

 

[RmikeVT]

There is a 'WhirlPool' option in the hop type drop down in Beersmith and you enter in a time and it attempts to calculate the IBU's based on the whirlpool length.

 

[Morrey]

When you build a recipe in BeerSmith, there is a drop down box with several sections including one that allows you to select whirlpool/steep to determine IBU's. You can then select the time you plan to WP/steep....unfortunately there is no temperature provision in this calculation. Most of the hop dominance after the boil, or at least under 180F (unfortunately) falls under the header of "hop perception", so no hard and fast IBU is assigned. I think some labs have a hop meter and that would be interesting to see how that works against a predetermined program like BS. Of course your actual hop strength would need to be checked first for accuracy.

Good post, BTW.

 

[Morrey]

There is a 'WhirlPool' option in the hop type drop down in Beersmith and you enter in a time and it attempts to calculate the IBU's based on the whirlpool length.

You were replying at the same time I was...sorry for the copy kat post.

 

[thehaze]

I have a Grainfather and it comes with its included copper CFC, which is very effective combined with my cold well water. Equipment aside, this is what I do:

I don't add any hops before the last 20 minutes in the boil. I like the effect of multiple additions ( every 3-4 minutes or so ) on flavour. This means in the last 20 minutes of boil, I will add hops 6-7 times, in various amounts: 0.2 oz at 20 minutes and the amounts are higher closer to end of boil. Let's say with 1 minute before the boil ends, I add 1.5 oz hops. At that point, I end the boil and I immediately start cooling down the wort between 140-160F.

I don't do flameout additions. The flameout addition could be the 1 minute hops, because they will steep in boiling wort for a while, until I cool the wort down. So you are still extracting bitterness, until under 180F, so in theory, if you boil for 60 minutes and you add flameout hops, the 60 minutes hops will actually boil for a bit longer than just 60 minutes, so even they will not add that many IBUs, they would still count ( it's relative - depends on the actual recipe and calculated IBUs ).

Cooling down from boil temperature to 155F does not take more than 10-12 minutes, at which point I dump all my whirlpool hops and " create " a whirlpool with my paddle. I let it rest for 10 minutes, come back and repeat, maybe 2 times more. This accomplishes several things:
- I resuspend the hops ( not having a pump ) as they will settle at the bottom of the kettle
- The temperature will drop even more during this 30 minutes whirlpool and will make it easier to cool and transfer to fermenter
- I use finnings in the boil, coupled with the relatively quick cooling down and the whirlpool, will create a very compact trub cake at the bottom, which will enable me to transfer clear wort to the fermenter.

 

[ncbrewer]

This link https://alchemyoverlord.wordpress.com/2016/03/06/an-analysis-of-sub-boiling-hop-utilization/ has some good info.

 

[FunkedOut]

In the beersmith equipment profile, there’s a check box for calculating post flameout IBU’s added.
Then a field where it asks for the duration between flameout and when the wort is chilled to 85*C.
This will calculate bitterness from whirlpool hops as well as any additions that are not yet 100% isomerized.