Hop Selections for German Pils

[Gravity]

Wyeast 2278 was used.

Interesting that your IBUs are at 65 - any reason for that ? Thats almost as hoppy as some IPAs - I wouldn't have guessed that in a Pils - maybe 40-45 at the high end

My brew was at 25

 

[WestMichBrewer]

Interesting that your IBUs are at 65 - any reason for that ? Thats almost as hoppy as some IPAs - I wouldn't have guessed that in a Pils - maybe 40-45 at the high end

My brew was at 25

I see 65 as "Target", but when you add up the IBU contribution from the actual hop schedule it is only 12.5 IBU.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I've also seen hallertauer magnum.and other stuff, so I guess it's more of an American or "somewhere outside Germany" thing to call mittelfrüh just hallertauer. Can be a bit misleading though. Maybe the other stuff is just not exported on such a scale as mittelfrüh, so people are not aware of the other varieties grown there.

We know the US can be pretty sloppy about geography and hops - it's still common to see "Styrian Goldings" there - and for it to be an actual mix of varieties, whereas within the EU they're pretty good these days about explicitly saying Savinjski Golding or whatever, perhaps with Styrian in brackets. And USians seem to persist in thinking that EKG is a variety rather than a geographical indication...

IME the British stores are generally fairly good about this kind of stuff.

 

[z-bob]

Perle.

For an American hop that could work, Mt Hood. Sterling makes a fine pilsner but is more Bohemian than German. (it might be good for bittering, though)

 

[Hoppy_Sanchez]

Brewed this beer using saaz and mitlefruh.
Beer turned out great. Scored a 36 in a local competition. My friend who brewed with me entered his sharing of the brew in the World Cup of beer comp and placed 1st in Pilsner category.

 

[bwible]

Bumping this older thread. I’m looking at pilsner recipes.

I’m in USA - Lately we’ve been seeing a bunch of lower AA in these varieties. I’ve got some Saaz that is 2.1%, Tettnang and Mittelfruher in the 3% range, etc. And I say “what the hell am I supposed to do with these?” Very late aroma or whirlpool additions only I guess. I did get some Spalt that was in the 5% range not long ago.

I think Northern Brewer and Magnum are a couple we’re seeing in good AA ranges that could work for bittering. You could use almost any hop for bittering if you’re boiling it 90 min or even 60 min, I mean within reason, as long as you’re calculating the IBU contribution. Even still I try to stay with region or style and the kind of hops that would be appropriate.

Side note: Styrian Goldings was mentioned earlier. Its now labelled Celia here in the US. For awhile some places were still keeping Styrian Goldings in parenthesis next to it so people would know.

 

[bwible]

Perle.

For an American hop that could work, Mt Hood. Sterling makes a fine pilsner but is more Bohemian than German. (it might be good for bittering, though)

The name Sterling is misleading for a hop that is not British. If they were going to use that name it really should have been a British hop. I mean c’mon - British Sterling, Pound Sterling.

 

[elproducto]

I'm a Mittelfru guy myself. I keep Saaz for Czech styles.

 

[ba-brewer]

This years German noble hops are a little higher(closer to 3AA), but the couple years before they were even lower down around 2AA.

I normally use magnum to do the bulk of the bittering with noble hops in the last 15min or so impact was not bad. I buy those in 2oz amounts so the lower AA helps use them and not have left overs.

 

[scrap iron]

I agree with ba-brewer, Magnum for bittering. I use Hallertau Mittelfrau and Tettnanger in German Pilsner usually at 30 and 10 mins left in boil.

 

[JohnDBrewer]

I like Pearle to bitter, then Mittilfrueh and/or Tettnag.

 

[Bramling Cross]

I'm certainly not against using high AA hops like Magnum to reduce the size of the 60min addition, but I've found that Randy Mosher's advice about using more low AA hops has merit in certain beers.

I'll argue that German pils is one of the styles were a larger addition of Haller or Tett at 60 and again at 30-20 makes a superior (albeit subtly superior) beer when compared to a much smaller addition of Magnum at 60. In fact, I've largely abandoned finishing additions in my German pils because large additions at 60 and 20 seem to push enough flavor and aroma and 5min and KO additions just seem to stick out too much. It's almost like they are appended to the beer, rather than an itegral part of it.

That's what I currently think, for what little it's worth. I've swung back and forth on this topic more than once. I suppose the quality of the hops that I'm able to get have more to do with it than I realize.

Edit: I'll also mention that I'm doing the same thing with my traditional UK-style ales. I've largely abandoned the use of late hop charges and instead rely on 60 and 20min additions (plus keg hopping) to get the point across. I've found my UK-style ales to be much improved as a result.

 

[MaxStout]

I've brewed a few beers using loads of low-alpha hops for bittering and ended up with excess polyphenols in the finished beer. So I'm in the high-alpha bittering camp and reserving Hallertau, Perle, Tettnang, et al., for flavor/aroma additions. Besides, I'm cheap and would rather add an ounce of Magnum at 60 instead of several ounces of noble hops, and my taste buds probably wouldn't notice the difference.

The few pro brewers I've talked to do it that way (probably to minimize costs) and use Magnum or Warrior as an all-around bittering charge.

 

[Bobby_M]

Hallertau Mittelfru is great, but dipping down into the 2.0% AA lately just can't get it all done. It definitely came time to get half the IBUs with less Magnum and I also secured some T-45 pellets (hallertau) at a whopping 4.9%AA.

 

[anteater8]

I've had my best luck with a Tettnanger/Hallertau combo, that was the only time my German Pils placed in a competition. My favorite commercial pilsners in general often have Saaz so I'd like to experiment more with that. I also have a Perle/Saphir/Spalt Select/Tettnanger pilsner planned soon, which are the varieties used in another one of my favorite commercial beers, pFriem Pils.

I've found it really difficult to find good descriptions of all these styles beyond "citrus, floral, spicy", so I don't feel like I have a great grasp on which hops contribute what.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

The few pro brewers I've talked to do it that way (probably to minimize costs) and use Magnum or Warrior as an all-around bittering charge.

How many of them are German?

Low-alpha bittering versus high-alpha bittering is one of the age-old debates, all I can say is that all the commercial brewers I respect, seem to think that low-alpha is the way to go for the styles where it matters. But then they're either British or continental European.

I’m in USA - Lately we’ve been seeing a bunch of lower AA in these varieties. I’ve got some Saaz that is 2.1%, Tettnang and Mittelfruher in the 3% range, etc. And I say “what the hell am I supposed to do with these?” Very late aroma or whirlpool additions only I guess. I did get some Spalt that was in the 5% range not long ago.

It's not because you're in the US, but because of vintage variation. 2022 was a terrible year for European hops, particularly for the quality of the traditional landraces that just couldn't cope with the heatwave. 2023 was a bit less bad, 2024 was back to "normal". So either you wait for the 2022/3 inventory to work its way through the system, or you reformulate and use different hops, as commercial brewers including allegedly Sam Adams have been forced to do.

I think Northern Brewer and Magnum are a couple we’re seeing in good AA ranges that could work for bittering. You could use almost any hop for bittering if you’re boiling it 90 min or even 60 min, I mean within reason, as long as you’re calculating the IBU contribution. Even still I try to stay with region or style and the kind of hops that would be appropriate.

Nah - if we're talking German lagers I'd stay away from anything high-alpha (ie double-figure-alpha) like Magnum. OTOH my eponym is more than just a good compromise - it's died out of commercial production here in the UK but is valued in Germany for the quality of the bittering it brings to lagers, particularly helles. So yeah, go Northern Brewer.

Side note: Styrian Goldings was mentioned earlier. Its now labelled Celia here in the US. For awhile some places were still keeping Styrian Goldings in parenthesis next to it so people would know.

Not quite. The original warm-weather-Fuggly-thing-grown-in-what-is-now-Slovenia that was called Styrian Goldings, is now called Savinjski Golding. But then they bred a bunch of daughter-of-Savinjskis, including the triploid variety Celeia. But they would sell a blend of those varieties under the old name of Styrian Goldings - it's a bit like the UK selling "Goldings" that was actually a mix of Target, Challenger, First Gold and the original Goldings.

The EU took a dim view of that and so the name "Styrian Goldings" was deprecated as each variety had to be sold under its own name. The original "Styrian Goldings" was renamed to Savinjski Golding, but about 3x as much Celeia is grown (and even more Aurora), so that's more likely to be the Slovenian variety that you see.

 

[MaxStout]

How many of them are German?

Low-alpha bittering versus high-alpha bittering is one of the age-old debates, all I can say is that all the commercial brewers I respect, seem to think that low-alpha is the way to go for the styles where it matters. But then they're either British or continental European.

It's not because you're in the US, but because of vintage variation. 2022 was a terrible year for European hops, particularly for the quality of the traditional landraces that just couldn't cope with the heatwave. 2023 was a bit less bad, 2024 was back to "normal". So either you wait for the 2022/3 inventory to work its way through the system, or you reformulate and use different hops, as commercial brewers including allegedly Sam Adams have been forced to do.

Nah - if we're talking German lagers I'd stay away from anything high-alpha (ie double-figure-alpha) like Magnum. OTOH my eponym is more than just a good compromise - it's died out of commercial production here in the UK but is valued in Germany for the quality of the bittering it brings to lagers, particularly helles. So yeah, go Northern Brewer.


Not quite. The original warm-weather-Fuggly-thing-grown-in-what-is-now-Slovenia that was called Styrian Goldings, is now called Savinjski Golding. But then they bred a bunch of daughter-of-Savinjskis, including the triploid variety Celeia. But they would sell a blend of those varieties under the old name of Styrian Goldings - it's a bit like the UK selling "Goldings" that was actually a mix of Target, Challenger, First Gold and the original Goldings.

The EU took a dim view of that and so the name "Styrian Goldings" was deprecated as each variety had to be sold under its own name. The original "Styrian Goldings" was renamed to Savinjski Golding, but about 3x as much Celeia is grown (and even more Aurora), so that's more likely to be the Slovenian variety that you see.

None are "German," per se, but they brew German-style beers. But for American drinkers, so they obviously take some shortcuts.

I don't want to fire up the low alpha vs. high alpha bittering debate (and I can appreciate the reasoning behind the former), but their thinking is to bitter with neutral hops and reserve noble hops for flavor/aroma.

With AA of nobles hovering in the 2-3% range in recent years, it's more cost effective to use 10-15% hops for bittering.