Hop selection for Sour Hazy IPA

[dogjam]

Going to try my hand at a Sour Hazy IPA for the first time. Going to use my usual NEIPA grain profile (2-row, Golden promise, malted oats, white wheat), sour with WLP677 lacto for 24h in the kettle, then boil/whirlpool/ferment/DDH. Was thinking of adding a few pounds of blackberries at the end as well.

Any thoughts/advice on brewing these bad boys, especially with respect to hop selection? I've got Citra, Mosaic, Idaho 7, and Nelson on hand.

 

[Dgallo]

I make sour IPAs pretty regularly. I personally would use only wheat vs the malted oat. In my experience, Sours get terrible head retention, which for me is not of, I need solid foam structure in my beers or I consider it a failure lol. so I use like 30% white wheat and 5% Flaked wheat or Barley. This paired with a heavy dryhop seems to do the trick.

When it comes to hop profiles, do pair your hops with whatever fruit your trying to complement. If you use black or red fruits, Mosiac and Citra would complement with some tropical melon/citrus notes.

Another thing I’ll add is that ibus are not your friend in a sour ipa. Sour and bitterness are terribly conflicting flavors and give off this medicinal flavor like biting Tylenol. Because of this, I only dryhop sours at a rate of 2 oz/gallon.

This was my most recent Sour Double IPA with lactose Vanilla beans, passion fruit, and Dryhopped with Galaxy. Let it sour to 3.6/3.7 and Came out very nice

 

[dogjam]

Awesome, thanks so much for the advice!

 

[dogjam]

I make sour IPAs pretty regularly. I personally would use only wheat vs the malted oat. In my experience, Sours get terrible head retention, which for me is not of, I need solid foam structure in my beers or I consider it a failure lol. so I use like 30% white wheat and 5% Flaked wheat or Barley. This paired with a heavy dryhop seems to do the trick.

When it comes to hop profiles, do pair your hops with whatever fruit your trying to complement. If you use black or red fruits, Mosiac and Citra would complement with some tropical melon/citrus notes.

Another thing I’ll add is that ibus are not your friend in a sour ipa. Sour and bitterness are terribly conflicting flavors and give off this medicinal flavor like biting Tylenol. Because of this, I only dryhop sours at a rate of 2 oz/gallon.

This was my most recent Sour Double IPA with lactose Vanilla beans, passion fruit, and Dryhopped with Galaxy. Let it sour to 3.6/3.7 and Came out very nice

That is a freaking gorgeous beer, btw--amazing work!

 

[couchsending]

The best breweries that make these beers are blending sour beer into an already finished and dry hopped IPA. You get horrible extraction and IMHO weird flavor when adding hops to low pH wort and/or beer. You’d be advised to brew an IPA the blend a sour beer into it before packaging.

You also need to use a ton of hops to get them to come through. I believe the Rare Barrel Dry hops their sour IPAs at 6lb/bbl.

I’ve done one. I brewed two batches of beer. One heavily hopped IPA (low in bitterness) and one heavily fruited kettle sour. When both beers were done I took samples and blended small amounts until I found the ratio I liked then combined two into one 5g keg based on that ratio using a scale then put the remaining individual beers in smaller kegs.

The lower the pH of the kettle sour the less of it you need to use. Highly recommend the Lacto Brevis strain from the Yeast Bay, it can get really low, really fast, even at moderate temps.

I’d use Good Belly over wlp677. It works much faster and will get you a lower pH. 16 hours at 90 should get you below 3.5.

 

[Dgallo]

The best breweries that make these beers are blending sour beer into an already finished and dry hopped IPA. You get horrible extraction and IMHO weird flavor when adding hops to low pH wort and/or beer. You’d be advised to brew an IPA the blend a sour beer into it before packaging.

You also need to use a ton of hops to get them to come through. I believe the Rare Barrel Dry hops their sour IPAs at 6lb/bbl.

I’ve done one. I brewed two batches of beer. One heavily hopped IPA (low in bitterness) and one heavily fruited kettle sour. When both beers were done I took samples and blended small amounts until I found the ratio I liked then combined two into one 5g keg based on that ratio using a scale then put the remaining individual beers in smaller kegs.

The lower the pH of the kettle sour the less of it you need to use. Highly recommend the Lacto Brevis strain from the Yeast Bay, it can get really low, really fast, even at moderate temps.

I’d use Good Belly over wlp677. It works much faster and will get you a lower pH. 16 hours at 90 should get you below 3.5.

There are other major reasons they are blending other than just flavor, I’m sure they could get their intended flavor without blending. I talked to Jason from Hudson valley brewing about it and he mentioned that blending is a way to make a lot of different beers, not tie up multiple FV and not have to put cultures in multiple fermenters.

 

[couchsending]

The hop flavor/aroma is rather different when dry hopping a low pH beer. Blending after dry hopping IMHO provides more of a true to type experience from said hops.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I’d use Good Belly over wlp677

+1 for using any culture of Lactobacillus plantarum instead of WLP677. The 677 can go in the trash where it belongs.

I'm a big fan of using hop tea instead of dry hopping. This approach avoids oxidation and avoids any possible issues with low pH.

 

[dogjam]

Just reporting back for follow-up. Brewed with the ingredients and protocol below. Started with the L. delbrueckii I had with no starter, absolutely no souring/pH movement after 24h--then had a snafu with my Grainfather app and boiled the wort for an extra 2 hours or so after picking the delbrueckii. Added a couple of Goodbelly shots and had some great sour development after 2-3 days. Taste is exactly what I was going for--tastes like a super tart orange/grapefruit smoothie!
6# Rahr 2-row
6# Golden Promise
2# Malted Oats
1# White Wheat
1# Flaked Wheat
0.5# lactose
L. delbrueckii-->Goodbelly x 2-3 days, reboiled for 10min then whirlpooled for 30min with 2.5oz each of Citra/Mosaic (180->170)
Pitched healthy starter of London Ale III harvested from a recent NEIPA, dryhopped with 2oz. C/M after 24-36h for 2-3 days
Soft-crashed to 60, then dryhopped with 2oz C/M x 24h, then hard crashed to 40, kegged 36h later

 

[dogjam]

I make sour IPAs pretty regularly. I personally would use only wheat vs the malted oat. In my experience, Sours get terrible head retention, which for me is not of, I need solid foam structure in my beers or I consider it a failure lol. so I use like 30% white wheat and 5% Flaked wheat or Barley. This paired with a heavy dryhop seems to do the trick.

When it comes to hop profiles, do pair your hops with whatever fruit your trying to complement. If you use black or red fruits, Mosiac and Citra would complement with some tropical melon/citrus notes.

Another thing I’ll add is that ibus are not your friend in a sour ipa. Sour and bitterness are terribly conflicting flavors and give off this medicinal flavor like biting Tylenol. Because of this, I only dryhop sours at a rate of 2 oz/gallon.

This was my most recent Sour Double IPA with lactose Vanilla beans, passion fruit, and Dryhopped with Galaxy. Let it sour to 3.6/3.7 and Came out very nice

@Dgallo mind sharing your recipe for that gorgeous sour IPA you posted above?