Honey Pale Ale - Your Opinions Please

[autobaun70]

Still in search of a good session ale to keep on tap year round. I have always enjoyed most of the honey brews that I have tried, so I figured I would scheme something up myself. My hop schedule is based on the fact that I had a ton of Cascade in the freezer. I am shooting for a somewhat citrus profile, with a decent amount of bitterness, but nothing over the top. In addition to Cascade I have a bit of American Saaz, but didn't think it would work into this very well.

11 gallon batch
60 Min Mash @ 152
Single Batch Sparge

Grain:
11 lbs 2 Row
3 lbs Crystal 40
2 lbs Honey Malt
2 lbs Carapils
2.5 lbs Honey (Pasteurized in water for a total volume of 1/2 gallon)

Hops:
2oz Cascade @ First Wort
3oz Cascade @ 15 min
2oz Cascade @ Flame Out

Yeast: US-05

Based on CP's Brew Chart this should come in at just under 5% ABV, 31 IBU, and a color of 19 SRM.

I will be brewing on Saturday, and already have the grain. If you think the hop schedule is way off please let me know what you would change. I can pick up pretty much anything locally between now & this weekend locally if need be.

 

[Pappers_]

Looks good. I might back off of the crystal and carapils a little.

 

[letsbrew]

have you ever brewed with some more esteric yeast? like s04?

 

[ajbram]

I'd also back off the crystal and maybe add 1/2 lb of flaked barley for some head retention.

Some friends and I did a honey rye ale a while ago that was a nice session ale. If I remember correctly that recipe called for some german wheat malt which might help your citrus character.

 

[autobaun70]

Thanks for your input. My grain was actually already bagged and crushed by the time I got back on here, but I may do a 2nd batch with the adjustment mentioned for the sake of comparison. I am thinking that I will split this between US-05 and possibly Nottingham just to compare.

 

[RynoSmail]

Yes, please do Batch #2 and let us know how it goes. I'm interested to see what the lesser amount of crystal will do overall.

 

[Poobah58]

Trying to figure out what you are doing here. 3# crystal will give you color and quite a bit of body and some head retention. 2# of honey malt will give some flavor and maybe a bit of body. The cara-pils makes no sense if you want to use honey. What is the c-pils for? If it's for body, it gets negated by the honey. Why the honey if you want a full bodied beer. Won't get any flavor using 2.5# honey in an 11 gallon batch.
PS, the honey doesn't need to be pasteurized. Just throw it in (i vote in secondary).

 

[bgs8884]

What does carapils do in general and why does honey negate it

 

[dobe12]

Trying to figure out what you are doing here. 3# crystal will give you color and quite a bit of body and some head retention. 2# of honey malt will give some flavor and maybe a bit of body. The cara-pils makes no sense if you want to use honey. What is the c-pils for? If it's for body, it gets negated by the honey. Why the honey if you want a full bodied beer. Won't get any flavor using 2.5# honey in an 11 gallon batch.
PS, the honey doesn't need to be pasteurized. Just throw it in (i vote in secondary).

Gotta agree. That's a lot of crystal and carapils. Your SRM is also way high for a pale ale. Should be down between 8-14 I believe. I'll add carapils to some recipes to add head retention and mouthfeel (always love writing that!) but 2lbs even in a 11gallon batch sounds like a lot.

 

[autobaun70]

Hmm,

I am getting conflicting reports on the color from Beersmith & CP's Brew Chart.

Beersmith shows I am at 10.2, right in the middle of the APA style.
CP's is give me much higher

My thought on the carapils was to get better head retention. I am considering skipping the honey all together and bringing the gravity back up with some extra light DME, probably around a pound to 1 1/2 pound.

 

[cadarnell]

skipping the honey is a great idea ... i think 2 lbs of honey malt will more than give you some honey notes ... I might mash this pretty low ... like 149 for 90 mins ... just some thoughts.

 

[Poobah58]

Your color should be fine. However, 3# C-40 will give you all the head retention you need IMO. Add a little wheat or flaked barley if your worried about it. Lose the C-pils and bump up the 2-row. Adjust next batch if needed. If you add DME, absolutely lose the C-pils. DME can be up to 35% C-pils. The honey might be a good idea if you add some DME because of this...

 

[Poobah58]

What does carapils do in general and why does honey negate it

Carapils or any crystal is unfermentable sugar. Yeast cannot break it down. Thus it leaves you with body (sweetness if you will) by raising the finished gravity. Honey is 100% fermentable and will help dry out a beer and give it less body (less sweet).