Homemade PBW Recipe

[Jayjay1976]

I wondered about re-passivating because it's a brand new rig and I have done alot of drilling, grinding, etching level marks, enlarged most of the holes in the grain basket, plus all of the new stainless camlocks, valves, probe, and elements. Just want to have her in tip-top shape prior to the maiden voyage and I wondered about crevice corrosion starting in some dark corner under a gasket.

 

[BrunDog]

You do no need to passivate SS. It will oxidize on its own.

 

[Bilsch]

What your doing with the acid in passivation is not forming the oxide layer but in fact enriching the chromium on the surface of the stainless by removing iron so that a proper oxide layer can form. Phosphoric acid (starsan), in any concentration, will not do that. Nitric or citric acid solution will.

 

[Horseflesh]

I put a scratch on a factory-passivated SS item, which developed surface rust within hours. Scrubbing with BKF got rid of the rust, but it came back. I them put a smear of full-strength StarSan on the cleaned spot, let it sit a few minutes, and rinsed. The rust never came back. <shrug>

(BTW your sig line cracks me up every time.)

 

[brew703]

Can regular TSP be used instead of TSP/90?
I've seen so many recipes for this- some have the 7th Gen dish powder and some don't.
Is it absolutely necessary to use the 7th Gen or ok to go with just Oxy and TSP?

 

[Stealthcruiser]

Last I've read: People are just using the two components, Oxy and TSP/90.

It's my understanding that the TSP/90 is more environmentally friendly, as it really no longer contains the " P " .

 

[soccerdad]

It is generally recognized these days that the 'phosphate scare' was rushed. No phosphate in a product like TSP90 may be somewhat better for streams and run off, but the small amounts used in something like PBW and that running to a water treatment plant is probably not harmful. I think the micro plastics in shampoos and cleaners today are far more harmful. Phosphates grew algae .. plastics are in your oysters.

 

[Horseflesh]

The simplest recipe is 70% sodium percarbonate and 30% sodium metasilicate. It's working well for me. A few pages back I posted Amazon links to the cheapest chemicals I could find.

 

[IslandLizard]

The simplest recipe is 70% sodium percarbonate and 30% sodium metasilicate. It's working well for me. A few pages back I posted Amazon links to the cheapest chemicals I could find.

Amen!
It's that simple...

 

[brew703]

It is generally recognized these days that the 'phosphate scare' was rushed. No phosphate in a product like TSP90 may be somewhat better for streams and run off, but the small amounts used in something like PBW and that running to a water treatment plant is probably not harmful. I think the micro plastics in shampoos and cleaners today are far more harmful. Phosphates grew algae .. plastics are in your oysters.

Yeah so is oil thanks to BP.
Lowes has regular TSP but not TSP/90. I may order from Amazon.
haven't had any issues with using plain Oxy but just wanted to try PBW.

 

[soccerdad]

Ace hardwate usually has 4# tsp90

 

[Maylar]

Do you guys mix this in water or keep it powder until needed?

 

[brew703]

Would this be the same as TSP/90? Found it at Lowes.

 

[IslandLizard]

Would this be the same as TSP/90? Found it at Lowes.

Look at the ingredients list.
If it's 100% Sodium Metasilicate, which is what you want, then yes, it is the same as TSP/90.

 

[Horseflesh]

What chemical is in that box? It will hopefully say somewhere, or you can get the MSDS. From what I have seen, phosphate-free TSP is either sodium metasilicate or sodium carbonate/percarbonate. You want the former, since you already get the latter from the Oxy Free.

I stopped buying the Red Devil because I could not confirm which of the two chemicals it was. The composition changed at some point and I can find an MSDS for each chemical, meaning that I am not sure what's actually on the shelf any more.

 

[IslandLizard]

Do you guys mix this in water or keep it powder until needed?

Keep your "PBW" dry until right before use.

A working solution (WS) will still be a very good brewery cleaner for weeks, but the O2 component, which is highly overrated IMO, will dissipate and be gone after an hour or so, depending on the temperature and agitation of the solution.

After the O2 has dissipated, the WS will contain washing soda (Sodium Carbonate, aka soda ash) and Sodium Metasilicate.

 

[brew703]

The free stuff isnt gonna work.
this is from Savogran's web site:
SODIUM SESQUICARBONATE 90-95% by weight
Sodium Metasilicate .1-5%
Ill return and get the regular TSP

 

[devils4ever]

Amen!
It's that simple...

Yes, I followed this recipe of 7 parts Oxi-Clean and 3 parts TSP/90 and it rocks! I haven't tried it with the detergent, but it doesn't seem to need it.

 

[30Bones]

So I have gathered all the ingredients for the recipe on post 1

Simple as mixing 96oz Oxy, 4# TSP/90 and 45oz 7th Gen dishwasher detergent?

 

[BrunDog]

Go with post 11. Yes measure and mix.

 

[30Bones]

Thanks, little less 7th Gen I see. Perfect.

 

[TexasWine]

So I have gathered all the ingredients for the recipe on post 1

Simple as mixing 96oz Oxy, 4# TSP/90 and 45oz 7th Gen dishwasher detergent?

Or use the simplified recipe, linked below.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=8101103

 

[TexasWine]

Double post.

 

[Rileysowner]

You're in Canada, TSP isn't banned here. You don't have to find TSP/90. You can buy the real thing here. Go to Home Depot, it's in the cleaning product section. It's in a blue carton, shaped like a milk carton.

My issue is finding the Seventh Generation Dishwasher Powder. Any alternatives for that in Canada.

 

[TexasWine]

My issue is finding the Seventh Generation Dishwasher Powder. Any alternatives for that in Canada.

Yes, skip it! See recipe at the link below.

Or go with the simplified recipe linked here.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=8101103

 

[griffi]

I agree with Texaswine; I’ve been using 7 parts oxyclean free to 3 parts tsp90 and it’s been working great for the last couple years!

 

[Rileysowner]

Then I will just go with the 70/30 split and see how it works. I am not sure on the current hardness of the water here. It used to be quite hard, but the water was mainly taken from local wells. Then the doubled up the pipeline from Lake Huron, and shut down the wells. I think the water is far less hard than it was then, so I will see how well this works.

 

[brewprint]

What is it that the dishwashing powder does anyway?

Honestly I think that plain oxyclean versatile may work better than this mixture. It seems like I have to use a lot more of it.

 

[Horseflesh]

I don't think the dishwashing powder helps. If I remember previous posts correctly it also contains citric acid, which will fight with the basic solution we're trying to create. It also has salt, and I don't want to soak any of my metal parts in salt water.

 

[RPh_Guy]

The 7th generation provides surfactants and chelators... components in the PBW formulation. They help dissolve oily deposits and remove hard water buildup.

These components ARE worth the effort in my opinion, from a chemical standpoint. And they are needed to replicate something close to the PBW formulation and not just a substitute cleaner.

Yes, the citric acid isn't ideal but it's not enough to matter. I reduced the amount I added to my mixture.

P.S. Whether salt water will cause corrosion is dependent on the quality of your stainless. It should be fine unless soaking for extended periods. (7th gen doesn't rust the inside of the dishwasher for example)

 

[Rileysowner]

The Oxi-clean/TSP mix seems to work quite well for me without the 7th Generation. It may work better with it, but since I cannot easily find it around here, I will stick with this for now.

 

[actionjackson905]

My issue is finding the Seventh Generation Dishwasher Powder. Any alternatives for that in Canada.

Canadian Tire

 

[Rileysowner]

Canadian Tire

I have checked around here, but not even the little packets are at Canadian Tire around here. The Oxi with TSP works fine for me, not haze so our water must not be that hard.

 

[brew703]

if one were to mix up a small batch by weight and only using Oxy and TSP/90, would the following work? I figured this would last me quite some time.

1 lb oxy
4.8oz TSP/90

 

[soccerdad]

IMO .. yes

 

[griffi]

if one were to mix up a small batch by weight and only using Oxy and TSP/90, would the following work? I figured this would last me quite some time.

1 lb oxy
4.8oz TSP/90

I do 70/30 so I would do 6.8 oz of tsp90..

 

[Mordhaus]

Not sure about all Target's, but in DFW, they have 3.5lb tubs of Oxiclean Versatile Free for $8.49 each and when you buy two, you get a five dollar gift card. They also carry the Seventh Generation dishwasher detergent for $6.49, making it $1.49 if you put the gift card towards it.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Just tried out my batch of OxyFree/real TSP/7th Gen last night on a filthy kettle after a high gravity brew resulted in a thick layer of gummy scorched hot break on my elements. I filled it to the rim with water, added two scoops of the stuff, heated to 180 and let it recirculate for 30 minutes. When I drained it I expected to have some scrubbing to do, but to my surprise everything was sparkling clean. So happy this worked out so well, my CIP routine is simple and takes care of itself while I clean up everything else.

 

[Bilsch]

If you can find the TSP/90 (sodium metasilicate) it works even better then TSP. I thought 5 Star probably used it because of phosphates but it turns out the metasilicate just out performs it. The one downside though is the dust really burns your nose, just like when using real PBW.

 

[jtratcliff]

Not sure about all Target's, but in DFW, they have 3.5lb tubs of Oxiclean Versatile Free for $8.49 each and when you buy two, you get a five dollar gift card.

Here in SoCal, the Kroger brand "oxygen cleaner" posted upthread is ~$4 for a 3.5 lb tub..

Available at the the Kroger owned supermarkets like Ralphs, Food4Less, etc.

I just pick up 2 tubs today at Food4Less for $3.99 each.