Homemade PBW Recipe

[schematix]

Life long PBW user. First time user of this recipe. I got tired of feeling ripped off paying $6-8/lb for some white powder that is just dirt cheap raw ingredients. About the only way to get a decent price/lb on this stuff is to buy the 50lb bucket, but that is more PBW than I need for the next 5 years.

I just made a batch of this from the recipe in post #402. So far i'm quite impressed. I tested it on a crusty erlenmeyer and it was spotless in about 60 seconds. Time will tell but this looks promising.

All together i got all the ingredients on amazon, with prime shipping, for about $51 to my doorstep. I spent another $5 on a 2 gal bucket with lid. So i got 13 lbs for about $4/lb. This puts it about the same price per lb as buying a 50lb pail but only 1/4 the amount.

 

[EDF713]

I use the homemade stuff on glass all the time. I've never noticed a problem and I am pretty cavalier. If you're careful to not let it dry on glass it should be fine. I'd do some tests though.

I finally tried this. It worked fine but I did get some stains on the outside bottom of the bottles at the bottom of the bucket where some of the powder had not dissolved. I mixed too much I suppose, but otherwise it worked great. Next time I'll mix half strength for bottle soaking.

 

[stlblues5010]

Usually if you have granules left either you didn't mix it enough or there wasn't enough water.

 

[BrionLax]

Since I live in Canada I can't source the Seventh Generation of the TSP/90 and the OxiClean is about 50% more expensive so making this fomula is challenging.

Fortunately for me, I live close enough to the border and I was at the end of my supply of PBW, I used this an an excuse to cross and pick up a few things and here is what I was able to put together:

OxiClean Versatile Free, 2X52oz tubs at Target - $15.28
Seventh Generation 75oz box at Target - $6.49
Red Devil TSP/90, 64oz Ace Hardware - $11.99 (I got the last 4# bag and they told me that is was being discontinued)

This works out to $2.22/lb USD or about $2.75 after the exchange. More than worth the drive.

As for how well it works, I did a big cleaning today and my kegs look spotless, my BIAB bag looks like I just bought it and I hope my CFC is clean as a whistle after circulating for half an hour.

I did notice that as others have noted, if the water is cool to cold, it will foam quite a lot. I heated water in my kettle to about 180 and added 1oz per gallon. It dissolved very nicely with only a gentle stir. I fired up the pump to recirculate through the CFC and no foam at all. I then transferred some of the hot solution into my kegs and a cleaning bucket for all of the various parts and pieces. There was a film of the cleaner left on the walls of the kettle and when I used some cold water to rinse the walls, it foamed quite heavily. I then decided to take the rest of the stuff inside where I could rinse with hot water and there was very little foam.

One last thing, where I live, the water is quite hard (+250 mg/L) and there doesn't appear to be any film or residue on anything that I cleaned today after a good rinse.

I spent a lot of time going back and forth in this thread to get a handle on everything so I hope this post helps out with anyone looking here for the first time.

Cheers

PS One thing I noticed in looking around is that the All Oxy Laundry Booster is now showing at almost $16 for the 52oz tub at Walmart and on Amazon

 

[actionjackson905]

Since I live in Canada I can't source the Seventh Generation of the TSP/90 and the OxiClean is about 50% more expensive so making this fomula is challenging.

Fortunately for me, I live close enough to the border and I was at the end of my supply of PBW, I used this an an excuse to cross and pick up a few things and here is what I was able to put together:

OxiClean Versatile Free, 2X52oz tubs at Target - $15.28
Seventh Generation 75oz box at Target - $6.49
Red Devil TSP/90, 64oz Ace Hardware - $11.99 (I got the last 4# bag and they told me that is was being discontinued)

This works out to $2.22/lb USD or about $2.75 after the exchange. More than worth the drive.

As for how well it works, I did a big cleaning today and my kegs look spotless, my BIAB bag looks like I just bought it and I hope my CFC is clean as a whistle after circulating for half an hour.

I did notice that as others have noted, if the water is cool to cold, it will foam quite a lot. I heated water in my kettle to about 180 and added 1oz per gallon. It dissolved very nicely with only a gentle stir. I fired up the pump to recirculate through the CFC and no foam at all. I then transferred some of the hot solution into my kegs and a cleaning bucket for all of the various parts and pieces. There was a film of the cleaner left on the walls of the kettle and when I used some cold water to rinse the walls, it foamed quite heavily. I then decided to take the rest of the stuff inside where I could rinse with hot water and there was very little foam.

One last thing, where I live, the water is quite hard (+250 mg/L) and there doesn't appear to be any film or residue on anything that I cleaned today after a good rinse.

I spent a lot of time going back and forth in this thread to get a handle on everything so I hope this post helps out with anyone looking here for the first time.

Cheers

PS One thing I noticed in looking around is that the All Oxy Laundry Booster is now showing at almost $16 for the 52oz tub at Walmart and on Amazon

Hey Brion. I live in Burlington and my mix is, Oxy Versatile Free (green lid at Walmart), Seventh Gen (pods in bags at Canadian Tire) and regular TSP (Walmart). Although I think I'd prefer to get the 7th Gen from across the border as busting the pods open is a PITA!

Sounds like you have a good mix.

Cheers

 

[BrionLax]

Thanks ActionJackson,

I did look at that option but the local CTC in Brantford didn't carry the pods even though the website said they did and for me, the amount of cleaner I have was well worth the trip.

BTW, what do you use for your LHBS?

Cheers

 

[actionjackson905]

Toronto brewing as they are almost next door from my work. Also Canadian HBS in Brampton as well as OBK on occasion.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I made a batch with OxiClean free/Seventh Gen/Real TSP and just tried it out the other day to clean out my new system before I get ready to brew my first batch in it, and it worked great!

After a test run with plain water to try out the step mashing/boil controller, at the end of the boil I used the OxiClean scoop to add in a scoop full of the mixture to the 6 gallons of water and let it recirc hot for about 30 minutes using the return hose to spray everything down; by the end there was a definite layer of junk floating and a grey scum around the edges of the pot so I drained it and ran plain water through it for a while to rinse all the crud out. I washed most parts of the system individually as it was built up so I was shocked how much additional junk that was still clinging to the insides. This stuff works great! Is it a waste of StarSan to do a final rinse to neutralize the PBW and re-passivate the stainless?

 

[Bilsch]

Is it a waste of StarSan to do a final rinse to neutralize the PBW and re-passivate the stainless?

Starsan rinse is probably a good idea to make sure that you have removed all the alkaline and oxidative residues from the pbw mix. Neither are good for beer. Unfortunately though starsan will NOT passivate your stainless. I know it's said often on forums and in one stainless equipment manufacturers literature but it is absolutely categorically untrue.

 

[Horseflesh]

I have never heard that you need to repassivate after using caustic cleaner like PBW. That would be an enormous hassle. I've also never had a problem with residue or flavors from PBW. Just rinse well and it will be fine.

(I was able to repassivate a scratch on stainless with undiluted StarSan, which is obviously much more potent, but that wouldn't be practical for anything big.)

 

[Jayjay1976]

I wondered about re-passivating because it's a brand new rig and I have done alot of drilling, grinding, etching level marks, enlarged most of the holes in the grain basket, plus all of the new stainless camlocks, valves, probe, and elements. Just want to have her in tip-top shape prior to the maiden voyage and I wondered about crevice corrosion starting in some dark corner under a gasket.

 

[BrunDog]

You do no need to passivate SS. It will oxidize on its own.

 

[Bilsch]

What your doing with the acid in passivation is not forming the oxide layer but in fact enriching the chromium on the surface of the stainless by removing iron so that a proper oxide layer can form. Phosphoric acid (starsan), in any concentration, will not do that. Nitric or citric acid solution will.

 

[Horseflesh]

I put a scratch on a factory-passivated SS item, which developed surface rust within hours. Scrubbing with BKF got rid of the rust, but it came back. I them put a smear of full-strength StarSan on the cleaned spot, let it sit a few minutes, and rinsed. The rust never came back. <shrug>

(BTW your sig line cracks me up every time.)

 

[brew703]

Can regular TSP be used instead of TSP/90?
I've seen so many recipes for this- some have the 7th Gen dish powder and some don't.
Is it absolutely necessary to use the 7th Gen or ok to go with just Oxy and TSP?

 

[Stealthcruiser]

Last I've read: People are just using the two components, Oxy and TSP/90.

It's my understanding that the TSP/90 is more environmentally friendly, as it really no longer contains the " P " .

 

[soccerdad]

It is generally recognized these days that the 'phosphate scare' was rushed. No phosphate in a product like TSP90 may be somewhat better for streams and run off, but the small amounts used in something like PBW and that running to a water treatment plant is probably not harmful. I think the micro plastics in shampoos and cleaners today are far more harmful. Phosphates grew algae .. plastics are in your oysters.

 

[Horseflesh]

The simplest recipe is 70% sodium percarbonate and 30% sodium metasilicate. It's working well for me. A few pages back I posted Amazon links to the cheapest chemicals I could find.

 

[IslandLizard]

The simplest recipe is 70% sodium percarbonate and 30% sodium metasilicate. It's working well for me. A few pages back I posted Amazon links to the cheapest chemicals I could find.

Amen!
It's that simple...

 

[brew703]

It is generally recognized these days that the 'phosphate scare' was rushed. No phosphate in a product like TSP90 may be somewhat better for streams and run off, but the small amounts used in something like PBW and that running to a water treatment plant is probably not harmful. I think the micro plastics in shampoos and cleaners today are far more harmful. Phosphates grew algae .. plastics are in your oysters.

Yeah so is oil thanks to BP.
Lowes has regular TSP but not TSP/90. I may order from Amazon.
haven't had any issues with using plain Oxy but just wanted to try PBW.

 

[soccerdad]

Ace hardwate usually has 4# tsp90

 

[Maylar]

Do you guys mix this in water or keep it powder until needed?

 

[brew703]

Would this be the same as TSP/90? Found it at Lowes.

 

[IslandLizard]

Would this be the same as TSP/90? Found it at Lowes.

Look at the ingredients list.
If it's 100% Sodium Metasilicate, which is what you want, then yes, it is the same as TSP/90.

 

[Horseflesh]

What chemical is in that box? It will hopefully say somewhere, or you can get the MSDS. From what I have seen, phosphate-free TSP is either sodium metasilicate or sodium carbonate/percarbonate. You want the former, since you already get the latter from the Oxy Free.

I stopped buying the Red Devil because I could not confirm which of the two chemicals it was. The composition changed at some point and I can find an MSDS for each chemical, meaning that I am not sure what's actually on the shelf any more.

 

[IslandLizard]

Do you guys mix this in water or keep it powder until needed?

Keep your "PBW" dry until right before use.

A working solution (WS) will still be a very good brewery cleaner for weeks, but the O2 component, which is highly overrated IMO, will dissipate and be gone after an hour or so, depending on the temperature and agitation of the solution.

After the O2 has dissipated, the WS will contain washing soda (Sodium Carbonate, aka soda ash) and Sodium Metasilicate.

 

[brew703]

The free stuff isnt gonna work.
this is from Savogran's web site:
SODIUM SESQUICARBONATE 90-95% by weight
Sodium Metasilicate .1-5%
Ill return and get the regular TSP

 

[devils4ever]

Amen!
It's that simple...

Yes, I followed this recipe of 7 parts Oxi-Clean and 3 parts TSP/90 and it rocks! I haven't tried it with the detergent, but it doesn't seem to need it.

 

[30Bones]

So I have gathered all the ingredients for the recipe on post 1

Simple as mixing 96oz Oxy, 4# TSP/90 and 45oz 7th Gen dishwasher detergent?

 

[BrunDog]

Go with post 11. Yes measure and mix.