Homemade PBW Recipe

[Bilsch]

I am honestly not sure if sodium metasilicate or real TSP is better, but assuming last year's bag of Red Devil was sodium metasilicate, I was happy with how the formula worked so I am sticking with it.

I've made and used it both ways and IMHO the metasilicate version works decidedly better.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I've made and used it both ways and IMHO the metasilicate version works decidedly better.

Ugh. I should have followed my instincts and went that route. I just received a box of real TSP from Amazon, it's a rock hard brick like some of the negative reviews mentioned. Now I feel like it's not worth the hassle of grinding it up if it's not going to perform as well as metasilicate. Ten bucks down the drain, and I have a useless brick of environmentally unfriendly crap. I'll grab a bag of tsp90 from menards to complete my batch.

 

[IslandLizard]

Ugh. I should have followed my instincts and went that route. I just received a box of real TSP from Amazon, it's a rock hard brick like some of the negative reviews mentioned. Now I feel like it's not worth the hassle of grinding it up if it's not going to perform as well as metasilicate. Ten bucks down the drain, and I have a useless brick of environmentally unfriendly crap. I'll grab a bag of tsp90 from menards to complete my batch.

I would use it, for most cleanup the real TSP will work similarly and just as well, while for some chores it may work better. It's a very strong base, slightly under lye, but not (as) caustic.

Although the metasilicate may have a slight edge over TSP here and there, you may never miss it. For those cleaning jobs where you feel you "need" it, add a teaspoon of metasilicate to your gallon of working solution.

I did notice the metasilicate in a working solution tends to gel up after storage for a few weeks, leaving a gelatinous "layer" in the jug. It re-dissolves when shaken or swirled.

To break the brick up put in a double layer heavy duty plastic bag and hammer it with a rubber or wooden mallet, or a piece of 2x4.

 

[Bilsch]

I did notice the metasilicate in a working solution tends to gel up after storage for a few weeks, leaving a gelatinous "layer" in the jug. It re-dissolves when shaken or swirled.

Interesting that you mention the gel. I used to see that happen after sitting a couple days with real PBW. Haven't had it happen with the generic mix made with either with TSP or meta. Always thought it might be the chelating agent. But hey unless were were paying for tech or reagent grade there is going to be quite a bit of variance in formula depending where our chemicals came from.

 

[devils4ever]

Okay, I'm ready to try this. So, if I understand this correctly, I need the following:

6 lbs Oxi Clean Free (https://www.walmart.com/ip/Oxi-Clean-Free-Versatile-Stain-Remover-65-Loads-3-0-LB/19406202)
4 lbs Red Devil TSP/90 (https://www.amazon.com/Red-Devil-0261-Heavy-Cleaner/dp/B0015WT148?th=1)
40 oz Seventh Generation Automatic Dish Detergent (https://www.target.com/p/seventh-generation-153-natural-dishwasher-detergent-free-and-clear-75-oz/-/A-13218995#lnk=sametab)

Is this correct? Are these the correct ingredients in the links?

 

[Horseflesh]

That will make a powder that cleans, but there will be things in it that aren't in PBW. For example the 7th Gen MSDS and it has a lot of salt in it. I don't want salt in my cleaner.

@IslandLizard had more to say about it . I agree with the simple approach.

 

[IslandLizard]

That will make a powder that cleans, but there will be things in it that aren't in PBW. For example the 7th Gen MSDS and it has a lot of salt in it. I don't want salt in my cleaner.

@IslandLizard had more to say about it . I agree with the simple approach.

Thanks for the emphasis to keep Homemade PBW KISS. Most others on this thread don't seem to care and just follow...

There have been notions that seawater (salt water) cleans very well, although it doesn't do grease. I agree to that, having spent many years on or near the ocean, alas, not while home brewing. So I have no experience in cleaning kettle scale from boiling wort and caked on krausen in fermentors with salty water.

I do know (hot) PBW works for these things, as does a bit of Barkeeper's Friend where scale is more tenacious. I'm sticking to that, so to speak, without the use of 7th Generation additions.

 

[Horseflesh]

My brewing gear is stainless steel, but I'm still not putting it in salty water. There are also countless other bits and pieces like the metal wires in bottle brushes, hose clamps, etc. which are probably not stainless. The salt gets rinsed off but you can always make a mistake. Why tempt fate?

 

[devils4ever]

That will make a powder that cleans, but there will be things in it that aren't in PBW. For example the 7th Gen MSDS and it has a lot of salt in it. I don't want salt in my cleaner.

@IslandLizard had more to say about it . I agree with the simple approach.

So, you're saying I should eliminate the Seventh Generation Auto Dishwasher Detergent?

I should just use the Oxi Clean Free and Red Devil TSP/90 in the proportions I gave?

 

[IslandLizard]

So, you're saying I should eliminate the Seventh Generation Auto Dishwasher Detergent?

I should just use the Oxi Clean Free and Red Devil TSP/90 in the proportions I gave?

Yep, that's my point.

Use:
70% Oxi Clean
30% TSP/90

 

[devils4ever]

Red Devil TSP/90 seems hard to find locally. I guess I could order it from amazon, but I need it for this weekend.

Can regular TSP be used instead? Is it as effective? Safe?

 

[soccerdad]

Try Ace Hdwe for RD tsp 90. Reg tsp won't hurt The phosphate scare was overblown.

 

[devils4ever]

I was able to source a 1 lb bag of TSP/90 from Amazon with my son's Prime membership. I mixed up 7 oz of Oxi Clean Free with 3 oz of TSP/90. I used 5 oz for each of my carboys. I was very pleased with the results. It took off almost all the ring without brushing. I needed to do some minor brushing on one of the carboys, but it was MUCH better than Oxi Clean alone.

I notice the TSP/90 bag says to not use with glass. So, I guess I can't store a batch in a glass Mason jar?

 

[Horseflesh]

I think the issue is it puts a film on glass if it dries. It might make the jar ugly but I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I just picked up all the ingredients to make up a batch; a 45oz box of 7th gen, two 3lb tubs of oxiclean free, and a 4.5lb box of Savogran TSP. Before I mix it up, how large of a container do I need to store this? ..... I'd like to know exactly what size container to buy.

I just mixed up my batch last night from the items listed, it filled a 23 cup cereal keeper completely and there was some left that I put in a ziploc bag. I estimate the total volume was about 24 cups, so anyone looking for a storage container can use that as a guideline.

 

[RPh_Guy]

The 7th Gen provides surfactants and chelators, which are needed to match the PBW formulation.... They help remove oil and mineral deposits respectively.
I didn't use the full box in my mix, only 45oz.

 

[phug]

Red Devil TSP/90 seems hard to find locally. I guess I could order it from amazon, but I need it for this weekend.

Can regular TSP be used instead? Is it as effective? Safe?

Regular tsp can be used and it is safe to use on your brewing gear as far as I can tell since if there's any tsp residue, it's not an issue tsp is a good additive as well. Check a few boxes of cereal and you might find it on the ingredient list.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Now that I have a batch ready to use, how much do I need to add to 5 gallons of water for cleaning? I thought I saw something about using the oxi clean scoop, will that provide that the correct dilution?

 

[Jayjay1976]

Yes. I use ~1 oz. per gallon of warm water.

The 1 oz. scoop that comes with the Sun Oxygen Cleaner works great for this.

Just recalling this info for reference, 1 oz. per gallon

 

[soccerdad]

I rarely use 6 of the scoops in a 6 gallon carboy ... 2 usually clean it up fully with an overnight soak

 

[EDF713]

I think the issue is it puts a film on glass if it dries. It might make the jar ugly but I wouldn't worry about it.

Has anyone had an issue with film after soaking bottles?

 

[Moarhops]

Hey guys, I tried to make a homemade version of PWB and ended up with the attached fail! Not sure what happened so would welcome any thoughts.

I mixed sodium percarbonate with trisodium phosphate (we don't have TSP/90 in the UK) in a 70:30 ratio. I then added around 5% of the weight in citric acid to act as a chelator but as soon as I started stirring the mixture it turned yellow and clumped together. Now there are yellow lumps in it and it's clumping together quite badly.

Anyone know what's happened? Will it still be possible to use the mixture as a cleaning agent or would I be better throwing it out?

 

[processhead]

Hey guys, I tried to make a homemade version of PWB and ended up with the attached fail! Not sure what happened so would welcome any thoughts.

I mixed sodium percarbonate with trisodium phosphate (we don't have TSP/90 in the UK) in a 70:30 ratio. I then added around 5% of the weight in citric acid to act as a chelator but as soon as I started stirring the mixture it turned yellow and clumped together. Now there are yellow lumps in it and it's clumping together quite badly.

Anyone know what's happened? Will it still be possible to use the mixture as a cleaning agent or would I be better throwing it out?

Make a mess and see if it cleans it up.
Seriously, take some greasy cooking utensils or oven grates and try your cleaner out on it.
My guess is it will still work fine if it will dissolve in hot water.

 

[RPh_Guy]

My guess is that the citric acid reacts with the bases and forms water, causing clumping... Or you somehow added moisture to it. Should still work fine.

 

[Moarhops]

Thanks, that's good to hear. Will try it on some kitchen gear before risking it in any of the brewing equipment...

 

[processhead]

Thanks, that's good to hear. Will try it on some kitchen gear before risking it in any of the brewing equipment...

I think the risk is minimal. Unlike sanitizing solution, where you can't really see if it is doing the job, cleaners like PBW either work well or they don't.

You will be able to rate the effectiveness by how fast and how effectively soils are removed from surfaces. All of this can be seen and felt.

 

[Horseflesh]

Has anyone had an issue with film after soaking bottles?

I use the homemade stuff on glass all the time. I've never noticed a problem and I am pretty cavalier. If you're careful to not let it dry on glass it should be fine. I'd do some tests though.

 

[phug]

Hey guys, I tried to make a homemade version of PWB and ended up with the attached fail! Not sure what happened so would welcome any thoughts.

I mixed sodium percarbonate with trisodium phosphate (we don't have TSP/90 in the UK) in a 70:30 ratio. I then added around 5% of the weight in citric acid to act as a chelator but as soon as I started stirring the mixture it turned yellow and clumped together. Now there are yellow lumps in it and it's clumping together quite badly.

Anyone know what's happened? Will it still be possible to use the mixture as a cleaning agent or would I be better throwing it out?

Did you use powered citric acid? Or liquid?

 

[Moarhops]

Did you use powered citric acid? Or liquid?

It was powdered citric acid. It looked white when I added it but there was clearly some reaction taking place as it turned yellow and clumped.

Seems to clean fine although there's a load of strange white gunk that floats to the top in the liquid

 

[Stealthcruiser]

Taste it.......