Not a welder. Though I have fused tungsten or molybdenum when we have had tubes arc.Are you talking about electron beam welding? How do you use chelates in that?
Not a welder. Though I have fused tungsten or molybdenum when we have had tubes arc.Are you talking about electron beam welding? How do you use chelates in that?
(Corrected.)Amazon/Video claims not to use red devil sodium silicate on glass.
Does this change because it is being diluted, or should it not be used in conjunction with the other two ingredients in glass carboys regardless?
(Corrected.)
I believe the sodium carbonate lowers the pH enough that the glass won't be etched to any significant degree. Either way, I wouldn't worry about it on bottles. I accidentally etched a table once while trying to make sodium silicate, but that was mostly visible just because it was a shiny black surface.
It's also recommended to wash with PBW at merely warm to hot temperatures, both for safety and to keep the H₂O₂ from degrading. These safer temperatures also greatly slow glass dissolution. (I would not boil glass in sodium carbonate, and definitely not in sodium silicate.)
Yes, it's fine.Not sure if this is what I'm asking, or a valid correction.
I'm not asking about sodium silicate, I'm asking about red devil tsp (the product) as mentioned several times in this thread. I'm not worried about bottles, as my original question was inquiring about glass carboys.
To reiterate my question, with the most recent mixture of the three ingredients, is it safe to use on glass carboys, or should I exclude Red Devil #0261 Tsp from my mixture? The glass may not be etched to a significant degree the first or second time, but I reuse carboys a lot as most do.
@awoitte If you are concerned about etching, there's another warning you need to know: don't leave anything soaking more than a day. Many of us have experienced a white mineral film that sticks to the things we've cleaned if we soaked for too long. It looks the same as etching. You won't get it off without a strong acid soak. It's possible that a strong chelating agent like EDTA can prevent this, but I haven't tried.
Recently finished my first batch made with oxi free, 7th gen, and DAP tsp. Bought a pound of real pbw in a pinch and thought it did a better job. Now I'd like to mix up a fresh batch of homemade but hopefully something closer to pbw, what's the latest recipe??
The 7th Gen works but it has a bunch of stuff I don't want.Does the 7th gen dishwashing powder not work for you? I have some, but I don't always use it. Only when the 65/35 oxy/tsp90 mix doesn't clean a better bottle in 24 hours.
PBW has 5 components:I'm not looking for good enough. I'm looking for as close to PBW as possible.
The 7th Gen works but it has a bunch of stuff I don't want.
For starters, we don't want the sodium chloride or citric acid.Anything particularly concerning, or just unnecessary?
I just used real brand name PBW for the first time in more than a year after exhausting the homemade stuff.
I conclude that that the real deal PBW does a better job.
I won't be making a knock off again anytime soon. Adios folks.
I just used real brand name PBW for the first time in more than a year after exhausting the homemade stuff.
I conclude that that the real deal PBW does a better job.
I won't be making a knock off again anytime soon. Adios folks.
If your homemade stuff contained a fairly large percentage of NaCl, and some other dubious ingredients this thread promotes, I wouldn't be surprised you'd step away from it.I just used real brand name PBW for the first time in more than a year after exhausting the homemade stuff.
Do you think PBW is worth 400% more? I lost my homemade PBW during my move and need to get more. I loved having a ton of "PBW" and not worry about using too much. I found it cleaned really well.
If your homemade stuff contained a fairly large percentage of NaCl, and some other dubious ingredients this thread promotes, I wouldn't be surprised you'd step away from it.
Maybe try the simpler compounding of ~25-30% TSP/90, 70-75% Percarbonate, plus a tiny amount of EDTA if need be. That's a lot closer to Five Stars' PBW.
I think you missed the essence.I used the oxyclean free, tsp/90 and 7th gen stuff. Don't get me wrong it worked really well and i found a lot of misc uses for it. However, real PBW was always quicker and i never had to soak anything twice.
I haven't been following this thread that closely but what is EDTA and where can you buy it?If your homemade stuff contained a fairly large percentage of NaCl, and some other dubious ingredients this thread promotes, I wouldn't be surprised you'd step away from it.
Maybe try the simpler compounding of ~25-30% TSP/90, 70-75% Percarbonate, plus a tiny amount of EDTA if need be. That's a lot closer to Five Stars' PBW.
I think you missed the essence.
Five Stars' PBW and proper homemade PBW (as I listed in #702) are essentially the same, neither contains any of the 7th Generation stuff. That's why the former two work almost equally well, while the latter, the concoction with 7th Gen. stuff mixed in doesn't even compare. NaCl as a cleaner??? Citric Acid in the presence of an overabundance of Na2CO3? No wonder it's disappointing.
EDTA is a strong chelating agent. It binds metal ions and such, so they become ineffective. Over time, it can suck metals out of glass, so beware, don't store loose or dissolved in glass containers.I haven't been following this thread that closely but what is EDTA and where can you buy it?
Ethylenediaminetetraacetic or EDTA for short. Commonly available as disodium EDTA-2Na and Tetrasodium EDTA-4Na.I haven't been following this thread that closely but what is EDTA and where can you buy it?
Sounds like it would be hard on aluminum kettles.EDTA is a strong chelating agent. It binds metal ions and such, so they become ineffective. Over time, it can suck metals out of glass, so beware, don't store loose or dissolved in glass containers.
It's not absolutely necessary to use in PBW, but it helps dissolve scale deposits, probably oxalates too by binding the Ca++ ions. I've never added it.
I reckon you can get it on Amazon or a chemical supplier, it's a white powder. [Edit per @S-Met]You should get the tetrasodium variety for this application.
It probably is, but anything acid or alkaline is already bad for aluminum (kettles), either will dissolve aluminum, with time. PBW is very alkaline, don't leave it on aluminum too long, although the gray oxide layer is somewhat resistant to alkaline activity.Sounds like it would be hard on aluminum kettles.
No harder than pbw.Sounds like it would be hard on aluminum kettles.
I use a mix of 2 scoops generic oxy clean free to 1 scoop red devil tsp90. This has never let me down.
I use a mix of 2 scoops generic oxy clean free to 1 scoop red devil tsp90. This has never let me down. Overnight soak and you are good. Or maybe Bob is your uncle. On rare occasions, with a particularly hard stuck kreusen ring, I will squirt in a little free and clear liquid dish soap and shake up the carboy. One more day of soak and it's done. Easy peasy .. and cheap.
They both contain surfactants, which are going to aid the cleaning process. Provided you rinse adequately, there shouldn't be enough left behind to affect head retention.@bplipschitz
Agree, except for the Dawn/Jet Dry/dish detergent. Don't they contain head killing ingredients/surfactants?
In my earlier post I meant to say 30% Metasilicate and 70% Generic Oxiclean free. The latter contains a sizeable amount of washing soda (Sodium Carbonate) already.
I wonder why brewing gurus like John Palmer vehemently warn against using dish detergents when cleaning brewing gear.They both contain surfactants, which are going to aid the cleaning process. Provided you rinse adequately, there shouldn't be enough left behind to affect head retention.
I wonder why brewing gurus like John Palmer vehemently warn against using dish detergents when cleaning brewing gear.
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