I haven't been on this site for long, a month or so, but I couldn't tell you what gender anyone here is unless they proclaim it in there user names. From what I've gathered people are here for answers and to share knowledge with a fair bit a goofing off at work. I've read hundreds of posts and haven't noticed anyone being singled out for anything much less for gender. This is one of the most reason based argument websites I've ever seen. Anywhere else on the internet a seemingly stupid question gets answered with, "haha !$#%ing noob". Here you hear "this is what you did wrong and why". Or if it's a discussion it's "I don't do ____ and this is why". Homebrew forums are one of the most welcoming places I've ever seen on the internet.
Homebrewing Needs a Woman's Touch
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I'm missing the reference....
imasickboy
Drinkasaurus extraordinarius
I've never taken notice to outright sexism here, but I will say that there aren't many female homebrewers in the grand scheme of things.
For those that insist they don't discriminate against female homebrewers, I ask you this:
What are you doing to encourage women to start brewing?
For those that insist they don't discriminate against female homebrewers, I ask you this:
What are you doing to encourage women to start brewing?
Psylocide
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Dude, check your username. haha seriously??
The B is silent.
Is Nom really a word? Okay, I will give you that one, but that is also why I said "I guess"
Carry on...
Hey, I taught my wife to brew. That should count for something? They're as welcome to me as anybody else. We all like brewing beer. Close enough. Nothing to see here...
Psylocide
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drainbamage
Keep HBT weird.
Poor attempt at humor on my part. Yooper sometimes uses a pic of Red Green as her avatar (don't know what it is now, is it back to the dominatrix?), and has occasionally been mistaken for a dude by newer members.
SWiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiMBO, sweet chariot. Coming forth to carry me hooooooome
She already told me where home was and demanded I meet her there, with homebrew. She didn't care the gender of who brewed.
LandoLincoln
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure why you feel that women need more encouragement than men to get into homebrewing.
worlddivides
Well-Known Member
Nothing.
But then again, I'm ALSO doing nothing to encourage men to start brewing. So what?
I think there are more male homebrewers simply because there are more male craft beer drinkers. And not just craft beer either. There are more men who drink beer than women. Period. That's not speculation. That's a cold, hard fact.
Only a very small percentage of male beer drinkers homebrew. So, if the percentage of female beer drinkers is much, much lower than the percentage of male beer drinkers, you would obviously have less female homebrewers.
VT-NAV
Well-Known Member
I thought I'd throw in my two cents.
First let me say that I think HBT is generally a very open and accepting community. As someone else stated, the charges of sexism leveled by the OP could be aimed at any online community: gamers, youtube commenters (well, not so much a community as a gathering of morons), professional forums, hobbyist communities like this, etc. If ultra politically correct were a 1 and openly misogynistic was a 10, I'd rate HBT at about a 3.
To say that there isn't any sexism on this forum is intentionally putting your head in the sand. There absolutely is sexism here because it's a community composed of fallible people who occasionally say stupid things. We're a diverse bunch of people from varied educational, social, and financial backgrounds.
Of course we have a few mouth breathers who don't know how to behave in the company of women. It's statistically probable that we have a murderer or two as members. Probably some child molesters too. That doesn't make the community as a whole bad.
I'm not certain the sexism here rises to the level of "homebrewing need[ing] a woman's touch." It's mostly to do with online anonymity removing the filter that would usually exist between one's brain and mouth if you were face to face with another human being.
If there was a way to make HBT more open and accepting of women, it would be to tone down the locker-room banter. Maybe realize that most women generally don't appreciate it when you say things like, "My server at the brew pub didn't know a damn thing about the beer she was serving, but it was OK because she was HOT!!!" Sure, some women want to be one of the guys and will go out of their way to let you know that kind of talk doesn't bother them (there have been a few in this thread). But if you really do want to give the OP's idea the attention it deserves, think about how the silent majority reacts to our behavior rather than the vocal few.
First let me say that I think HBT is generally a very open and accepting community. As someone else stated, the charges of sexism leveled by the OP could be aimed at any online community: gamers, youtube commenters (well, not so much a community as a gathering of morons), professional forums, hobbyist communities like this, etc. If ultra politically correct were a 1 and openly misogynistic was a 10, I'd rate HBT at about a 3.
To say that there isn't any sexism on this forum is intentionally putting your head in the sand. There absolutely is sexism here because it's a community composed of fallible people who occasionally say stupid things. We're a diverse bunch of people from varied educational, social, and financial backgrounds.
Of course we have a few mouth breathers who don't know how to behave in the company of women. It's statistically probable that we have a murderer or two as members. Probably some child molesters too. That doesn't make the community as a whole bad.
I'm not certain the sexism here rises to the level of "homebrewing need[ing] a woman's touch." It's mostly to do with online anonymity removing the filter that would usually exist between one's brain and mouth if you were face to face with another human being.
If there was a way to make HBT more open and accepting of women, it would be to tone down the locker-room banter. Maybe realize that most women generally don't appreciate it when you say things like, "My server at the brew pub didn't know a damn thing about the beer she was serving, but it was OK because she was HOT!!!" Sure, some women want to be one of the guys and will go out of their way to let you know that kind of talk doesn't bother them (there have been a few in this thread). But if you really do want to give the OP's idea the attention it deserves, think about how the silent majority reacts to our behavior rather than the vocal few.
Lagunitas (Chicago), Temperance (silver in her first year at the GABF for English IPA in 2014) and New Glarus are all run by female brewmasters, or brewster to use the correct nomenclature. Those are just the few that came to my mind right off the bat, but I know there are more examples. Obviously this is a pretty male dominated hobby, but we can't ignore the legions of accomplished female brewers out there. Where would HBT be without Yooper or Billy-Klubb? I love me some lady brewers!
...
Psylocide
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How is that in any way offensive to women? It's an opinion and not in the least bit degrading.
Have we all become sensitive that we can't even appreciate the female form (or male, if it applies)? That's a basic instinct that you're trying to jam back in a bottle and chastise those that might make a comment on it amongst friends?
Every day women whistle at me when I'm walking down the street... they yell things at me like "Hey hott stuff" or "Damn you fine" and such. And you know what? I appreciate that.
First... who wants to live in a world ruled by the PC police? What fun would that be???
Second... The majority of women that I have been around (the office type of non brewing girls) absolutely make (quiet) comments about how hot the servers are at bars when being served by men.
Women might be a minority on HBT but it is not because the forum is generally offputting to them it's because the majority of women do not drink or like beer. HBT is a fun rowdy (at times) place where we can all come in and kick up our feet and be ourselves. I get bashed all the time by other women for not being feminine enough which drives me to love the locker room humor around here. To me, that's welcoming.
Poor @Billy-Klubb , I didnt know his name was actually Billy-Jean Klubb.
cjokrap
Well-Known Member
Its been a good long while since I've been around, but I would totally be interested in this fantasy league next year.
BTW, I showed this thread to my SWMBO, and she first pitched a fit at the premise, and then laughed at all the responses.
There arent many minorities on this forum either, are we now racist as well?
Frankly I have had more than enough of this PC crap. This forum is one of the most laid back and relaxing places on the internet. The simple fact is that most homebrewers are white males. Its not that it's a conspiracy to keep the women and minorities out of the hobby, its simply that they dont seem to show much interest in the hobby. The ones that do are treated exactly the same as any other schmuck that shows up here is a prime example of how, in my opinion, the damn world should be run. Nobody gives a rats ass if the people on here are male or female, black or white. Skin tone and gender are a non issue here.
Are there idiots on other forums? Probably, I dont know, I dont go to any other brewing forums. Are there businesses run by slack jawed knuckle dragging morons who live to insult women. Again probably, I dont know Ive never seen it happen. Are there bad things that happen to people in the real world? Yes, but not here. Here is a safehaven of civility and equality.
We are all equal in the yeasts eyes. Dont make a problem where there is none. Relax, dont worry and have a beer.
Frankly I have had more than enough of this PC crap. This forum is one of the most laid back and relaxing places on the internet. The simple fact is that most homebrewers are white males. Its not that it's a conspiracy to keep the women and minorities out of the hobby, its simply that they dont seem to show much interest in the hobby. The ones that do are treated exactly the same as any other schmuck that shows up here is a prime example of how, in my opinion, the damn world should be run. Nobody gives a rats ass if the people on here are male or female, black or white. Skin tone and gender are a non issue here.
Are there idiots on other forums? Probably, I dont know, I dont go to any other brewing forums. Are there businesses run by slack jawed knuckle dragging morons who live to insult women. Again probably, I dont know Ive never seen it happen. Are there bad things that happen to people in the real world? Yes, but not here. Here is a safehaven of civility and equality.
We are all equal in the yeasts eyes. Dont make a problem where there is none. Relax, dont worry and have a beer.
I'll preface this with my belief that you may very well be referring to me in this comment and the one following. If that is the case then please, by all means do not hide behind some thinly veiled insult and at least tag me or the person you are seemingly singling out.
With that in mind, I will say that it has nothing to do with not paying attention. What you failed to consider is that perhaps I do not view whatever you think is happening on this site, and I am singling out this site, as sexism or anything that the blogger was trying to point out. I simply have not experienced it myself and this community, the entire home brewing community as a whole, has been nothing but welcoming to me.
Looking at my own posts, there has not been a point where I have said that sexism doesn't exist because I never saw it. Perhaps you were singling out another member, that is a possibility. Making it seem as though I, or anyone else, has stated that this issue doesn't exist because we haven't seen it is an extremely inane comment to make. You may as well say that those who were not affected one way or the other by slavery also believe it never existed because they didn't see it. Do you see how incredibly inane that would be?
All I have said was that I have not witnessed it, I have not felt it, I have felt welcomed and I do not believe this is a huge issue overall. I will also include a fun fact, I'm not getting any special treatment as a women because I'm hot or young or anything of the sort. I believe the reason I am welcomed is because I tend to be welcoming to others, I tend to come off as respectful to others, and I do not immediately assume that I will be treated poorly because I am a woman in what really is a hobby dominated by men.
To expand, I have seen other female home brewers who have been welcomed exactly as I have both in person at events surrounding home brewing and on this site. I have even been to Reddit, since the blogger refers to that quite a bit in his responses, and I haven't felt that way. I have not felt as though I have made much of a connection there, but that is not specific to the home brew forum, it goes for the entire site. I never thought it had to do with me being female.
I will apologize if something I wrote even remotely made anyone think that I believe something doesn't exist because I've never seen it. That includes issues outside of home brewing.
I think this thread took the most appropriate turn.
All right, so the take away is this blog is posted elsewhere to garner hits and discussion and the responses have been varied across social media and two forums.
It is hard to agree with your premise when it was so incredibly one-sided and unfair to every single male in the hobby. You made them out to be cavemen, in my opinion. Your response though is part of the problem. When you say that "actual women" responded and "gasp" what is it that you're attempting to convey? That heaven forbid actual women on Reddit (opposed to the not actual women here) agree with you? Kudos, you found your target audience. No one has said that it cannot happen, I personally (since you did point me out) have not experienced it personally. What you fail to point out is some agreed in principle with you, but again, didn't see it as an overwhelming problem here.
Side note: You posted this various places and that was not because you thought HBT would be the best place, this is just another place to post your blog, which is fine.
So here's the deal. I went to your Reddit thread this morning and glanced over some of the 256 replies. The first takeaway I have is that a fair amount of the responses were directly related to your issue with the Brewing Network. Many agreed with the issue with commercials, both men and women. Some chimed in agreeing but also defending as some of the top people there are women. It absolutely did take a turn that seemed center-focused on BN.
At some point you wrote this:
Who are you to say what someone has or has not experienced? I'm unsure but you sure did. You did it in your blog post, here, and on Reddit. I didn't bother with Facebook. I wouldn't go as far as to really dissect all posts and find out how many agree with you and how many done, but I think your portrayal of certain things that did happen on Reddit is slightly exaggerated because again, I think there was a good deal of focus on BN podcasts.
If you takeaway anything from this at all, takeaway this, I understand your point of view. I also believe that the emphasis on the Brewing Network suggests that you disapprove of their marketing and you feel as though they're drawing a line between genders. They likely are, but their target audience isn't the small population of female brewers, it's the larger population of men. At this point, it appears they do not care if their audience has women in it. If the hobby becomes more female-involved then perhaps they're change their marketing, but basically, they're hitting up the men for money and listeners. It is not to say you're not valid for feeling as though their marketing is crass, it kind of is.
From one fellow Cubs fan to another, can we just focus on LesterYear from here on out? It'll cut down on my wall-o-text responses for sure.
I'm going to the kitchen to make a sandwich.
The logic of the original OP post is as follows:
Statement: There is a large statistical difference between the number of men and the number of women in home brewing beer.
Conclusion: The men who home brew are sexist, whether they know it or not.
Analysis of Logical statement:
Facts not in evidence, conclusion is unsupported.
Statement: There is a large statistical difference between the number of men and the number of women in home brewing beer.
Conclusion: The men who home brew are sexist, whether they know it or not.
Analysis of Logical statement:
Facts not in evidence, conclusion is unsupported.
:fro::rockin:
Psylocide
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You win the thread.
Perhaps women are being scared out of home brewing because of male oriented forum names:
Names like "homebrewdad".
Why would the OP name himself with the word "Dad"? His very name is MALE-DOMINATED (insert sound of rolling drums here)
I think this needs to be explored in more detail.
I literally did LOL at that.
I have a couple of things to say. One is that I haven't felt overt sexism here, for the most part. Not the day I arrived to the forum nearly 9 years ago, or now.
There are a few cave men- but I see them in the real world also.
About the BN- well, I don't listen to it all that much due to the sophomoric humor but it's not because I'm a woman, it's because three hours of fart jokes is just not funny to me. However, next Monday when I'm a guest on there- please listen!
I like Justin very much, and he is on the AHA governing committee, and he is not misogynistic at all. The AHA does have a Diversity Committee, and things have changed dramatically in the last 7 years since I joined. At my first national conference, there were a handful of women and about 800 men. There were no 'minorities' that I saw, except for one speaker. There are still not a ton of minorities, but the Homebrewer of the Year in 2013 at the NHC was an African-American female. Many of the AHA Governing Committee members are female- but I didn't count them because it doesn't matter what their gender is.
Part of the reason that I don't see much sexism here (aside from some younger newer guys who think women only like 'fruity beer') is simply because most of us don't care if you are a male or female. This is not a dating site- this is a brewing site.
I have always been treated with respect here by the other members, and have developed life-long friendships, including meeting one of my best friends on this site. (Yes, he is a male).
The one thing that makes me crazy is trying to be inclusive of females and minorities by singling them out. There are all-female competitions, for example, like the Queen of Beer. I will not enter them. There are all-female homebrew clubs- I generally cringe at the idea.
I am a brewer, and a pretty good one. Whether I have breasts or a penis (or like some of the guys here, both
) doesn't affect the finished beer. And, people have not treated me like it does.But opportunity knocks...
There's room on this site for a dating forum. Heck if there's a Farmers Only dating site there could be a Home Brewer's dating site.
Hey, You work out?
mattmmille
Well-Known Member
So, on that scale of 1 to 10, someone ranks us a 2 on the ultra PC end?! Bwahahahahaha! When I first jumped on HBT, I had a couple of regulars that stuck it to me once or twice about something I said. I felt like one was really insulting and I took it personally. I can't even remember what it was now, but I wrote back a scathing response...gave that person a piece of my mind! It turns out, I really didn't have a piece to spare. I sometimes comment on stuff elsewhere on the internet and get into discussions that sometimes get pretty contentious, so I was ready to get into it here. Turns out, everybody here, pretty much sticks it to each other pretty regularly, but (mostly) in a friendly way. It's kind of like sarcasm...and if you aren't clued in, you might take it seriously and let the sarcasm go right over your head. It was pointed out to me very quickly that I needed to lighten up and grow some thicker skin. So, I don't think we are anywhere close to a 2 on the ultra PC meter. That general attitude seems to prevail, male or female.
We all came to this hoppy hobby for different reasons and from different backgrounds. Some, because we love the creativity, some for the science, some because we love the equipment and the pprocess, some because we like the positive feedback when we produce something other people are impressed with. Male or female doesn't matter, but guys are guys and make gender related comments from time to time. My experience is that the women in this community aren't easily offended, have a sense of humor and want to (and DO) make great beer. The ones I have encountered have always been helpful, regardless of how noobish my issues were. That goes for most people here, regardless of gender. While there can be some in-depth discussions here, most are question/answer, tell me about your experience and how can I relate it to something I'm doing...and then there's just the fun and good-natured (mostly) back and forth between "beerquaintainces". Just made up a new word. Feel free to use it. You're welcome. And I'll admit, when I make a good beer, it has a woman's touch, because HBT.
We all came to this hoppy hobby for different reasons and from different backgrounds. Some, because we love the creativity, some for the science, some because we love the equipment and the pprocess, some because we like the positive feedback when we produce something other people are impressed with. Male or female doesn't matter, but guys are guys and make gender related comments from time to time. My experience is that the women in this community aren't easily offended, have a sense of humor and want to (and DO) make great beer. The ones I have encountered have always been helpful, regardless of how noobish my issues were. That goes for most people here, regardless of gender. While there can be some in-depth discussions here, most are question/answer, tell me about your experience and how can I relate it to something I'm doing...and then there's just the fun and good-natured (mostly) back and forth between "beerquaintainces". Just made up a new word. Feel free to use it. You're welcome. And I'll admit, when I make a good beer, it has a woman's touch, because HBT.
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So much for going with the flow, sheez...So now it's attack the old farts time, ok, I see how it is...
Hey now, this is a touch the women thread. Not a touch the old geezer thread.
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We don't date here. We just auction off the wives.
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