I'm starting to wonder when they're going to do anything. Mail just came today, still nothing. No emails either. I know people who live close to me who got their sheets 3 days ago. I'm dying here!!!!!!!
Homebrew on the WEB 2012
- Thread starter Mills
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk:
I think a lot of judges just don't judge sours well. I swear, if I get one more "lack of body" knock on a sour beer I will scream. And I'm usually pretty dissapointed in the judging of the Belgian styles, too. Strange thing, the Belgian categories should be some of the most widely varying and open to different interpretations, yet many judges seem to have a pretty narrow view of what a good one should be. And they're obsessed with every singe Belgian needing to be an absolute ester and phenol bomb. I may just need to stop entering Belgians, because my tastes are obviously not what they're looking for, and I'm not going to brew a beer I like less just to score higher.
Yeah, unless it's a Dupont clone, don't bother entering a saison. Apparently Dupont is the only true saison out there in judges' eyes. Saison is a WIDELY varying style, yet seems to be the beer most commonly called "off syle" by judges. And there definitely needs to be at least one more sour category - other than Berliner Weisse, the only way to enter a beer with any sourness and not have it ripped to shreds is if it's a Flanders red or brown. But there are wild beers out there besides those two styles. But outside those styles, sourness is almost always counted as a flaw - even in category 23, which should be open to anything.
My Saison that place was made with a blend of wyeast saison strains (3724/3711) and they said that it was so lactic that it was nearly out of style. One judge erased and changed a couple scores on it, thank god it still made it to the MINI bos where a more experienced judge knew what he was drinking. LOL
![Craft A Brew - Safale S-04 Dry Yeast - Fermentis - English Ale Dry Yeast - For English and American Ales and Hard Apple Ciders - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [1 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41fVGNh6JfL._SL500_.jpg)
You know you can enter sour beers in category 23 or 16E if it doesn't fit one of the already defined styles. When you enter your beers in one of these specialty categories be sure to describe exactly what the beer is. Remember the judges don't know anything about the beer except what you tell them when you enter it in one of these categories. You will need to specify a point of basis for them to judge it against. If you just say 'sour beer' how can a judge judge that against anything... Even just putting 'American Sour Ale' in the comments isn't going to do you any favors. Tell them about the beer so they know what they are judging.
FYI I got a silver with a tart apricot saison.
FYI I got a silver with a tart apricot saison.
Thats exactly what I did with a few beers and they scored ok except my sour imperial stout that was in 23. Noted that it was intended to be a loose clone of JP Madrugada Obscura and noted every detail about it. I got comments complaining about the lack of body and that it didn't retain any of the stout character (roast/chocolate). I sent this same beer into the Michigan beer cup last year and scored a 44 on it from ranked judges and I also sent it in to BrewBubbas in which they reviewed it with Todd parker from copper canyon. He called it a sour breakfast stout and Craig said it could actually be a Jolly pumpkin beer. All three guys loved it. It really just all comes down to who the beer gets put in front of and their own interpretation of the guidlines. I'm not mad at all about it and understand that its all people volunteering and I appreciate that. I take the comments with a grain of salt when it comes to sours.
Was your Tart Saison in cat 16E? Congrats! Was it tart from the fruit?
Actually it was 20-A. Fruit beer. The tartness did come from the apricots in this case. I received a 13 on this beer in another competition because they assumed the tartness was due to infection. I wasn't very specific in my description i just said apricot saison.
Yeah I could see both sides. Typically if you enter a beer as a sour russian imperial stout the judge will judge it to the russian imperial stout guidelines while taking the sour notes you state into account. If they cannot perceive the base style listed then they should give it a lower score. So my advise would be if it doesn't have stout characteristics list a different base style for them to judge against. If it does have stout characteristics then maybe you just had a bad draw. Judging is def subjective.
Yeah I could see both sides. Typically if you enter a beer as a sour russian imperial stout the judge will judge it to the russian imperial stout guidelines while taking the sour notes you state into account. If they cannot perceive the base style listed then they should give it a lower score. So my advise would be if it doesn't have stout characteristics list a different base style for them to judge against. If it does have stout characteristics then maybe you just had a bad draw. Judging is def subjective.
The problem with category 23 is that since there are no style guidelines, it ends up just being a matter of the judge liking the beer or not. And even though 23 should be open to anything, since it is not a defined sour category, a lot of times sour beers get knocked for either "infection", lack of body, or not being close enough to the closest base style (if I was trying to make something closer to the base style, I wouldn't have soured it!). A Flanders Red doesn't get knocked because the style guidelines specify it should be like that( plus the judges who volunteer for the sour category tend to like the funky stuff) - but a sour beer in cat. 23 only gets judged by that particular judge's tastes, so if they aren't a fan of sours you're not going to be scoring well. I know 23 is the toughest category to judge, so I'm not whining or saying that my beers are all better than the judges think or that I've been robbed or anything like that. It just seems that it is hard to get a sour beer judged fairly unless it is one of the defined sour styles. And in category 16E, only a tiny bit of sourness or Brett character seem to be well recieved. Any significant funkiness seems to get the beer knocked. I'm pretty sure I could send in a bottle of Jolly Pumpkin "La Parcela" (a MAGNIFICENT beer) to a homebrewing comp. in category 23, and it would probably score about a 26.
Did you list a club? If so, maybe someone from your club was there and grabbed them, but yeah get ahold of Jay.
mlyday
Well-Known Member
Still no Honorable mentions posted either.
for a beer in category 23 to be judged properly you have to clearly tell the judges what the intent of the beer is. in 23 a judge can only judge what you tell them you've entered.. If it's a sour beer they are going to be looking to see if it is multi-dimensional or just 'sour', etc...
Perhaps there was a mistake on the entry form? Spelling error? Transposed numbers?
mlyday
Well-Known Member
Have you check with your neighbors. We get packages that were intended for or neighbors all the time. It was really tough walking that box of omaha steaks the neighbor bought over to their house. That one almost "got lost in the mail.
I just got an email from Jon, the registration guy who mailed everything out. He's going to email me the scoresheets, but we still don't know where the medals are yet. I'm sure they'll turn up here or there eventually, it's really the scoresheets that I want to see. I'll post the results when I get his email later on.
You're a good neighbor. I may have had to grill at least one before I "remembered" that I didn't order any steaks.
I'm actually surprised they mailed out any of the scoresheets. They told us at the awards ceremony that all the scoresheets would be destroyed that were not picked up. And that everyone would be getting the scanned copies of their sheets sent to them.
So apparently the universe just doesn't want me to ever see my scoresheets. After finally hearing from the registrar yesterday, he said he could email me the sheets yesterday evening. Well, it never happened. CAN A GUY JUST SEE HIS DAMN SCORE SHEETS PLEASE?!?!
*BTW, for those of you waiting to see the honorable mentions, they are up on the website finally
*BTW, for those of you waiting to see the honorable mentions, they are up on the website finally
mlyday
Well-Known Member
The honorable mentions are up but I don't think they are complete. I had a 40 in category 3. According to the contest rules anything over 38 should be an HM. There are no HM for cat 3. The only category without any.
Yeah, someone clearly does not have their sh*t together. The message from the club that notified the results were up online said "We apologize to anyone who was missed, if you scored 38 or above you got an honorable mention" - as if they knew that the list wasn't complete or accurate, but don't want to bother to fix it. You know, a big part of an "honorable mention" is the MENTION part. I know we're all supposed to bow down and just be thankful that they put on the competition, but this is pretty shoddy. It's not as if they put on the competition to do us a favor - they did it because they wanted to. If you want to run a competition, have some pride and do it right (and finish the job - just because judging is over doesn't mean you are done). I guess it goes without saying that I am still waiting for the scoresheets that were supposedly getting emailed to me 2 days ago. And who knows where my medals are. This is PATHETIC.
mlyday
Well-Known Member
My initial reason for entering was just to get feedback, which I got. But I told alot of people that I was entering and then told them to I did well and that the results including my honorable mention would be on the website. I cant see how they could go through each group, and create a list of the winners and not pull out all the scores above 38 at the same time. There were only 20 entries in my category. I understand that things happen in a event this large, but what really ticks me off is that I have emailed them numerous times, and never even got back a response at all. Nothing.
I also had an HM in category 2 (scored a 39) that was left off the list. That sucks.
It can't be that easy to keep all of that information in order, especially after drinking all of that beer!
mlyday
Well-Known Member
I finally heard back to my email.
This was his response.
"Due to some inexperienced stewards and some errors made by them a few HM have been missed. I spent every night for a week trying to fix any errors but due to the 1000 plus entries I had to go through it was a very difficult task and a few HMs did get missed. We apologize for any oversight. Yes anyone scoring a 38 or higher is an HM as stated in the rules and on our website. "
My translation of this is.... "After we figured out the winners someone tossed the sheets for a few categories."
To me it just seem that they dont want to take the time to fix it. They emailed all the non winners sheet so they have the scanned version.
At a bare minimum they should investigate a specific problem when someone emails them.
This was his response.
"Due to some inexperienced stewards and some errors made by them a few HM have been missed. I spent every night for a week trying to fix any errors but due to the 1000 plus entries I had to go through it was a very difficult task and a few HMs did get missed. We apologize for any oversight. Yes anyone scoring a 38 or higher is an HM as stated in the rules and on our website. "
My translation of this is.... "After we figured out the winners someone tossed the sheets for a few categories."
To me it just seem that they dont want to take the time to fix it. They emailed all the non winners sheet so they have the scanned version.
At a bare minimum they should investigate a specific problem when someone emails them.
Exactly. I understand it takes some time to look through 1000+ entries, but you emailed them with a specific entry that received a score higher than 38. They should get off their a$$ and post it. Like I said before, it's not an honorable mention without the MENTION part. I know everyone wants to be all cool and pretend it doesn't matter to them - but you worked hard for that honorable mention, and you should get it. BTW, I finally got my scoresheets yesterday (after sending yet another reminder email), and it turns out I got two other scores over 38, neither of which is listed among the honorable mentions. Not a huge deal, but like a wise man once said, "anything worth doing is worth doing right". They should go through the entries again and make things right.
wolverinebrewer
Well-Known Member
I agree that they should fix all of their errors. And I want to know why the HM's stop at category 21? Where is 22 and my 38 HM in 23? I have my own saying: If you don't have the time to do it right, how will you have the time to do it over?
