Home roasting expert needed!

[dontman]

Cool thing. Wait til it starts drying out during the next phase and you get that sweet wort smell. Then you'll know you've arrived. You can also use that smell to gauge where you are in the caramelization process.

I just got done a batch of Ordinary Bitter using only MO and my own grains and washed yeast. I feel like a frickin Pennsylvania Dutchman. This is officially the smallest beer I have ever done. (1.040 OG, 1.011 FG)

 

[Saccharomyces]

I'll be watchin'. I really wanna try making my Belgian Pale Ale with 100% home roasted grain. It's already one of my best beers, scores consistently in the 40s at comps, and disappears at parties. I can only imagine how good it would get with home roasted grain.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

I just got done a batch of Ordinary Bitter using only MO and my own grains and washed yeast. I feel like a frickin Pennsylvania Dutchman. This is officially the smallest beer I have ever done. (1.040 OG, 1.011 FG)

This is what tells me that we are on the same wavelength.

I just bottled a second, lighter version of my previous brew with special B. It is another winner! It's lighter in body, and more of a summer brew, but it is easy to tell that the two are related. I just KNOW that this roasting process will work for me, and from that I will get a whole family of of recipes!

I ain't Amish, but I think I may just grow the beard when I finally get this thing sussed!

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

I'll be watchin'. I really wanna try making my Belgian Pale Ale with 100% home roasted grain. It's already one of my best beers, scores consistently in the 40s at comps, and disappears at parties. I can only imagine how good it would get with home roasted grain.

I dunno if your beer will be better for home roasting your grains....All I can say is that it FEELS better!

 

[Saccharomyces]

I've been using toasted malt for awhile now in my house ale and IPA, I love it. Adds a complexity of flavor that is more than I get from Victory or Biscuit.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

I've been using toasted malt for awhile now in my house ale and IPA, I love it. Adds a complexity of flavor that is more than I get from Victory or Biscuit.

Yup! I do my own biscuit these days. I don't see any reason to buy from a supplier now that i know I can create exactly what I want now from what I have already!

 

[brokenanchor]

Yup! I do my own biscuit these days. I don't see any reason to buy from a supplier now that i know I can create exactly what I want now from what I have already!

Just as a reference how long do you toast the grain for your biscuit? I usually do a couple pounds on a cookie sheet at 300*F for 60 minutes.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

Just as a reference how long do you toast the grain for your biscuit? I usually do a couple pounds on a cookie sheet at 300*F for 60 minutes.

60 minutes at 350F turning rgularly......But I find that after today I gotta find out the real temp. My oven is a total liar!

 

[dontman]

So how'd it go? Did you get nice crystal malt?

 

[brokenanchor]

60 minutes at 350F turning rgularly......But I find that after today I gotta find out the real temp. My oven is a total liar!

Well if yours is lying then I have to assume mine is too. I'll take a true temp next time I roast (probably tomorrow). I'm hoping it's off so I can also cut down on the time it takes to cook my zza's

 

[brokenanchor]

I wish I had known about letting the grain hang out for a week or so after roasting BEFORE my first AG. I roasted a pound threw it right in and came out with a slightly astringent SMASH. I learned quick though, and they got better.

 

[hcarter]

I hate that I keep missing these types of cool threads!! Anyway, Could I buy a sack of 2row and do the same thing? Is there anything about 2 row vs. MO that I don't know that would make this a bad idea? I can't think of any.

 

[Pappers_]

Would using Munich (with it's already increased maltiness) work in making hand-made crystal malt? Just an idea I had - some are good, some not!

 

[dontman]

To answer both posts above: On 2 row. Yes you can use 2-row. I have never used anything but 2 row. I have actually never used MO to do this although I plan to.

On Munich: Don't see why not. I have a sack of Vienna, might try that too.

 

[hcarter]

This could really cut down on some of the expense of brewing. I could probably talk her into letting me buy a sack of 2 row. If it works really well, next time around I could buy 2 sacks. LGI, this is one of your best ideas. Not so sure if I need anyone to show me how to catch a fart in a jar but I bet there's a forum for that. lol.

 

[dontman]

This could really cut down on some of the expense of brewing.

Yea right! This is more like buying a boat to save money on fish.

Like just about everything else in this hobby, this is not a cost saving effort. Running an oven for 5 hours to save $2 or $3 total on specialty grain is not cost cutting. This is strictly a brewing geek out effort.

I doubt there are very many brewers who have saved money on beer expense by getting into this hobby.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

The results are in, and Dontman, I think it's a success!

These pictures show up darker than actuality. The Home roast is on the left, Special B (180L) on the right.

The home roast grains are darker on the outside, probably because I fell asleep so they didn't get spritzed or turned. (I relaxed and had a homebrew)

The steeped grains, (1 teaspoon of crushed grains in a random shot of hot water) showed up close. I reckon my home roasted came out at 160L-170L compared to special B's 180L

Obviously it is unscientific to do a taste test on such a small sample, but the steeped grains tasted so alike that I would not want to try and call a difference!

I am VERY pleased with the results, and really really REALLY stoked to brew with these grains next week!

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

I hate that I keep missing these types of cool threads!! Anyway, Could I buy a sack of 2row and do the same thing? Is there anything about 2 row vs. MO that I don't know that would make this a bad idea? I can't think of any.

It would work with any grain although the end results would vary. I'm sure though that roasting American 2 row for an american beer would be very appropriate. The only reason I am using MO is because it is my prefered base grain so I buy it in sacks. My ultimate goal is to have a sack of malt, some hops, and some washed yeast and other stuff I can get at the supermarket and be good to go for my house beer.

 

[brokenanchor]

My ultimate goal is to have a sack of malt, some hops, and some washed yeast and other stuff I can get at the supermarket and be good to go for my house beer.

See THAT'S where you start saving mon....BHAHAHA sorry I was almost able to say it without laughing. Sure, I've gotten my smaller beers down to about 15 cents per 12 fl oz, but I rarely brew small beer. Plus I'm pretty sure we've all put ourselves waaaay in the hole on brewing equipment, keezers, ect...don'tman said it perfectly it's like buying a hooker to save money on....nevermind. LGI those look like some really solid results Let us know how the next batch turns out...or send us some!

 

[dontman]

Looks perfect LGI, I had almost identical results. The flavor was what convinced me that I was on target. My darkest roast actually looked the smallest bit darker than my commercial Special B but it was considerably more even so it looked even higher quality than the commercial.

As far as total cost. My batches are now down in the ~$10 range for 1.050 range beers. Ingredients alone of course. Very reasonable when considered in a vacuum. Taken with all of my equipment though I am quite a bit higher and will probably never come down because I am always looking for the next project in which I can sink a bunch of money. Current considerations: Brew sculpture, grain mill, Electric Liquor and Mash Tun.

And since I am a pro coffee roaster and have several different coffee roasters ranging from a one pound sample roaster up to my 7 pound production roaster I am looking at modified drums to handle malt.

 

[hcarter]

Yea right! This is more like buying a boat to save money on fish.

Like just about everything else in this hobby, this is not a cost saving effort. Running an oven for 5 hours to save $2 or $3 total on specialty grain is not cost cutting. This is strictly a brewing geek out effort.

I doubt there are very many brewers who have saved money on beer expense by getting into this hobby.

Yeah, you're probably right, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it!!

 

[dontman]

Yeah, you're probably right, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it!!

Yes! That's the spirit.

My wife justs rolls her eyes when I go on a new "cost saving" project.

My last one was a 90 cubic foot fridge I built in my basement.

 

[MVKTR2]

What you want to do is crystallize that MO.

This is very doable. I have 2 pounds in my oven as we speak.

You first need to rehydrate the grain by soaking it for 24 hours in chlorine free water.

Then you basically will be mashing it in the husk. First drain, and then put the wet grain in the oven at ~160-165 for 3 hours in a casserole pan that keeps the grain bed depth at around 2 inches. This will convert the starch to sugar. EDIT: This is the most important step by far. If you do not properly convert the starch you will not have sugar to caramelize. For that reason you want to make sure the grain bed is actually between 155-165 degrees. Any warmer and the enzymes will get denatured and not convert the starch.
Then you will need to brown and caramelize this crystal malt. This is a pretty long process to get to 180l but it is well worth it. It will be the best Special B you ever had. First split the grain into 2 or more pans so that the grain depth is ~ 1 inch. Turn up the oven to 220. Stir the grain every half hour until the grain gets dry and crisp and starts to darken. Maybe 2 hours. (At this point you will have 15-20l crystal malt) To take this to 180l I would spritz with water now and moisten so that the grain will continue to caramelize. Raise the temp to 300. Over the course of an hour to 2 hours this grain will go through the progressing levels of lovibond darkness. Keep close track. When you hit around 80l raise the temp to 350 and watch carefully, stirring every 15 minutes or so until you get to a point that is approaching, but less roasted than Special B. It will continue to darken some out of the oven and it is always darker than you think. Always.

Total roast time will probably be in the 4-5 hour range.

First I proosted this thread, as this is good info & the type of discussion I come here for! Secondly though this is several pages back I wanted to reiterate what good advice this is. I created my own homemade caramel malt from M.O. last night & used this exact same process. The only differences were that I soaked my grain for 4.5 hours, which was enough. I also dried my grain @ 200 degrees, not 220, minor difference. The only mistake I made was making 1 pound instead of 2!

I'll add that it's really important to watch the grain as you're drying it when it's close to dry & to watch it when you're curing/roasting it at the end. I got mine a little darker than I wanted, probably Crystal 90-120. Anyhoo it taste WAY WAY WAY better & more caramel than the store bought version. WOW now I've got to do another batch soon... I'm gonna need it for a few upcoming brews!

Schlante,
Phillip

 

[Saccharomyces]

Would using Munich (with it's already increased maltiness) work in making hand-made crystal malt? Just an idea I had - some are good, some not!

Belgian caravienne and caramunich are ... well, presumably light crystal made from said grains since caravienne is ~20L and caramunich is ~40L. I definitely plan on trying my hand at caravienne for my BPA. I have some commercial caravienne so I will do the side by side comparison like LGI did before committing to using it in a batch.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

What you want to do is crystallize that MO.

This is very doable. I have 2 pounds in my oven as we speak.

You first need to rehydrate the grain by soaking it for 24 hours in chlorine free water.

Then you basically will be mashing it in the husk. First drain, and then put the wet grain in the oven at ~160-165 for 3 hours in a casserole pan that keeps the grain bed depth at around 2 inches. This will convert the starch to sugar. EDIT: This is the most important step by far. If you do not properly convert the starch you will not have sugar to caramelize. For that reason you want to make sure the grain bed is actually between 155-165 degrees. Any warmer and the enzymes will get denatured and not convert the starch.
Then you will need to brown and caramelize this crystal malt. This is a pretty long process to get to 180l but it is well worth it. It will be the best Special B you ever had. First split the grain into 2 or more pans so that the grain depth is ~ 1 inch. Turn up the oven to 220. Stir the grain every half hour until the grain gets dry and crisp and starts to darken. Maybe 2 hours. (At this point you will have 15-20l crystal malt) To take this to 180l I would spritz with water now and moisten so that the grain will continue to caramelize. Raise the temp to 300. Over the course of an hour to 2 hours this grain will go through the progressing levels of lovibond darkness. Keep close track. When you hit around 80l raise the temp to 350 and watch carefully, stirring every 15 minutes or so until you get to a point that is approaching, but less roasted than Special B. It will continue to darken some out of the oven and it is always darker than you think. Always.

Total roast time will probably be in the 4-5 hour range.

I wanted to reiterate what good advice this is. I created my own homemade caramel malt from M.O. last night & used this exact same process. The only differences were that I soaked my grain for 4.5 hours, which was enough. I also dried my grain @ 200 degrees, not 220, minor difference. The only mistake I made was making 1 pound instead of 2!


Schlante,
Phillip

Dontman's method should be immortalized in a stone sticky. I had all but given up on home roasting a decent crystal. I've tried a lot of methods, most of them from other threads in this forum. They all turned out bland and weak. Dontman's method is a sure fire winner in my book.

Hell, if I can get the results I did at the FIRST attempt with this method, by my third attempt I will be Superman!

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

Oh yeah....Cost wise, I now spend 3$ per gallon max. It all depends on prices, but with my last group buy and low prices at hops direct I'm looking at $2.50 or less per gallon......I have decided to put a halt on too much new equipment while I bask in the glory of those prices!

 

[dontman]

I forgot to mention the project that is really keeping me up at night: A plumbed-in glycol jacketed conical fermenter positioned in my basement. Plumbed in to the back porch where I do my boils. QDs on the wall to just attach to the kettle after whirlpool. CIP of course. Of course I will more than likely be single when I finish that project and will have to find a new house to live in . . .

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

I forgot to mention the project that is really keeping me up at night: A plumbed-in glycol jacketed conical fermenter positioned in my basement. Plumbed in to the back porch where I do my boils. QDs on the wall to just attach to the kettle after whirlpool. CIP of course. Of course I will more than likely be single when I finish that project and will have to find a new house to live in . . .

You won't have to be single for very long if you will marry me!

 

[dantodd]

Wouldn't it be significantly easier to just buy a bag of light crystal and then roast it to the desired color as needed? It doesn't seem that crystal is much more than base malt when purchased by the bag and should store well until you need it. You would then have a light crystal available to make any crystal you need plus your base malt available to roast for any roasted barley you may need in your recipe.

 

[dontman]

LMAO! Nice to have options.

I should of said this project that is "keeping me up at night" dreaming about it. I have not broken ground on this one as of yet, although I have checked out the rafters to plan out the plumbing, you know, if I ever happen to get around to this.