Home RO system?

[Yooper]

I'm now thinking of getting a home RO system. I've been putting it off, since RO water is fairly cheap, and I use a mix of tap water and RO usually. The only time I use straight RO water is for pilsners or other light lagers.

I have a utility sink in the brewery that I use for my brewing water.

Does anyone have any input into affordable home RO systems, along with some easy "how tos?"

 

[zymurgy101]

Are you looking for an 'under the sink' model that has a storage tank or just an RO system to hook up whenever you need good water?

I've been using a SpectraPure RO\DI system since the early 90's with great results. I just connect it to the sink whenever I need RO and\or DI water. It's pretty straightforward with the only 'how to' being to remember to flush the RO membrane with fresh water when you are finished using it for that session. SpectraPure has good quality membranes and the owner has always been helpful in the past.

http://www.spectrapure.com/

 

[Bobby_M]

I personally don't love the idea of running the waste water down the drain so I'm putting off the RO system until I have a complete plan for reuse of the waste. I'm pretty close.

With three little kids in the house, we do at least a load of laundry a day. I plan to make a platform right next to my washing machine a put a 15 gallon plastic barrel on it with a drain spigot. It will also have an overflow bulkhead 2" from the top. This will collect the waste water and will drain into the washing machine when it's time for a load. If it doesn't get used, the overflow will go down the drain. In the summer, that hose will pass through the wall and go to the hops.

The RO water will travel through a 1/4" Polyethylene tube to the brew system in the garage where it hits a manual shutoff valve first, then passes to a clamp-on float valve that I'll clamp to the HLT. The night before brew day, the valve gets opened and the next morning the HLT will be full of RO water, or less if I adjust the float lower. If I need more than 15 gallons, I'll start sooner and move the float to the boil kettle.

I'll probably also tee off the line to run to my fridge dispenser as well. RO makes good coffee.

 

[Yooper]

Are you looking for an 'under the sink' model that has a storage tank or just an RO system to hook up whenever you need good water?

I've been using a SpectraPure RO\DI system since the early 90's with great results. I just connect it to the sink whenever I need RO and\or DI water. It's pretty straightforward with the only 'how to' being to remember to flush the RO membrane with fresh water when you are finished using it for that session. SpectraPure has good quality membranes and the owner has always been helpful in the past.

http://www.spectrapure.com/

I don't think I want a storage tank- just run it when I need it. How fast/slow is it?

That website says it a 1:1 waste ratio. That'd be fine with me- if I could "capture" the waste water, I'd still use it in my brewing since most of the time I'm doing a mix of RO/tap water, if that makes sense.

I like Bobby's plan to capture the waste water, but I still would use mine in brewing and/or for cleaning up.

 

[Bobby_M]

The problem with using the waste water as brewing water is that it now has a higher concentration of the ions you wanted to remove. A 1:1 ratio is pretty rare. The one I had a while back put 4 gallons of waste out for each 1 gallon of RO. If it really is 1:1, removal of 40ppm of calcium from the RO should create 80ppm in the waste water. It's ok for cleanup.

 

[Hermit]

The problem with using the waste water as brewing water is that it now has a higher concentration of the ions you wanted to remove. A 1:1 ratio is pretty rare. The one I had a while back put 4 gallons of waste out for each 1 gallon of RO. If it really is 1:1, removal of 40ppm of calcium from the RO should create 80ppm in the waste water. It's ok for cleanup.

Same goes for laundry. Harder water isn't good for the soap.

 

[Lonnie Mac]

I couldn't do without my RO system. I have a simple 4 stage from Bulk Reef Supply.

Here: http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/75-gp-5-stage-ro-system-no-di.html

GREAT prices! I love BRS, and the kit contained every thing I would need to have a free flowing standup system that I can hook to a hose and use when I wanted.

It takes me most all day, about 8 hours to filter out 20 gallons into my rubbermaid collector barrel. In that I can add my chemicals afterwards. I have never heard of a 1:1 waist. Mine is at best 4:1 and more as the filter gets clogged over time. I just waste to my old tree. It always needs water here.

 

[Bobby_M]

I agree with that but it depends on what your initial concentration is and the RO:waste ratio. My water is low/moderate hardness and most systems I've been checking out in the $120 area are 3 waste: 1 RO. I'd put that in the washer.

 

[Hermit]

I agree with that but it depends on what your initial concentration is and the RO:waste ratio. My water is low/moderate hardness and most systems I've been checking out in the $120 area are 3 waste: 1 RO. I'd put that in the washer.

I have reservoir water and get definite deposits on things I use to collect it. I freeze it and put a five gallon chunk into my laundry tub. I then use a small sump pump to recirculate though my immersion chiller. I do use that water as a presoak for my equipment overnight.

 

[Drinks3point2]

I bought my RO system at Costco. It's been a couple of years since it was purchased so I don't remember the cost. I do remember it was a bit cheaper than some other systems that we looked into. It has 2.5gal storage tank under the sink that you pressurize with a couple of strokes from a bike pump. I'm guessing, but I would say it flows about 1 gal per minute and refills adequately. The flow is faster than any of the RO's at friends' houses that I have used. The filter system mounts against one wall of your sink cabinet and is a pretty easy install.

 

[Bobby_M]

Membranes are rated in GPD or gallons per day. The cheaper ones will be like 24gpd (one gallon of RO produced per hour). You can get them over 100GPD but it's not realistic for home use. That's why they usually include a holding tank. For brewing purposes, it makes a lot more sense to stockpile at least 10 gallons prior to brew day.

 

[crash1292]

personally I would use the waste water to flush the chitter....thats where most of your water use is in a house

 

[bja]

Membranes are rated in GPD or gallons per day. The cheaper ones will be like 24gpd (one gallon of RO produced per hour). You can get them over 100GPD but it's not realistic for home use. That's why they usually include a holding tank. For brewing purposes, it makes a lot more sense to stockpile at least 10 gallons prior to brew day.

The output is also highly dependant on your line pressure. I'm not sure what pressure the membrane ratings are based on, but it's pretty high.

I have 2 RO systems and a DI unit. My water pressure is about 55-60 psi and they make almost exactly half of what the membranes are rated. In other words, I get 50 gpd from my 100 gpd membrane and 30gpd from my 60 gpd membrane.

 

[Bobby_M]

personally I would use the waste water to flush the chitter....thats where most of your water use is in a house

I'd think that's pretty hard to set up in any automated fashion unless you discharge the waste into a tank higher than your bathroom. Then if you have company over and run out of supply, someone gets embarrassed.

 

[cyberwollf]

The only 1:1 RO/DI systems i have heard of are usually custom built. You run a higher pressure restrictor and timer automatically flush your membrane every 5 minutes. If you dont flush the membrane often it will get scaled up with trash. Russ at Buckeye Field Supply gave a talk at our local reef club.

I just have a plastic 55g drum and pump waste water to the washer or garden.

 

[Huff360]

The RO water will travel through a 1/4" Polyethylene tube to the brew system in the garage where it hits a manual shutoff valve first, then passes to a clamp-on float valve that I'll clamp to the HLT.

One thing to note - You may already know this, but others reading the thread may not:

If you just "cut off" the RO output, the prefilters will still be doing their job and all the water will be diverted to the waste line in the RO cartridge.

If you put a cutoff on the product (RO) water line, you need to also shut off supply water. They make some cool little automatic shutoffs that will do this for you. You place it right at the product water output on the RO cartridge and when it detects pressure on the product line, it cuts the supply line.

Another thing to note - RO membranes don't like to be cycled on and off. The efficiency goes way down with short cycles. If you hook to the ice maker, you need a storage tank.

And one last thing - Most membranes are rated in the 50 to 60 psi range.

+1 on bulkreefsupply good prices, good people, good service.

 

[Lonnie Mac]

One thing to note - You may already know this, but others reading the thread may not:

If you just "cut off" the RO output, the prefilters will still be doing their job and all the water will be diverted to the waste line in the RO cartridge.

If you put a cutoff on the product (RO) water line, you need to also shut off supply water. They make some cool little automatic shutoffs that will do this for you. You place it right at the product water output on the RO cartridge and when it detects pressure on the product line, it cuts the supply line.

Another thing to note - RO membranes don't like to be cycled on and off. The efficiency goes way down with short cycles. If you hook to the ice maker, you need a storage tank.

And one last thing - Most membranes are rated in the 50 to 60 psi range.

+1 on bulkreefsupply good prices, good people, good service.

The RO that I linked to came with a auto shut off valve too. Not bad at all for the price!

Also from BRS is an auto shut off kit. Looks handy, comes with a float switch...

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/products/reverse-osmosis-filters-and-systems/ro-di-accessories/auto-shut-off-kit-for-reverse-osmosis-systems.html

 

[Bobby_M]

Lonnie covered it but yeah, that block with 4 ports on it in the picture works almost like an electrical relay. When no flow is detected through one circuit, it closes off the other (the supply). You absolutely should have one of these no matter what your application is.

 

[hatfieldenator]

I use a system from this site: www.thefilterguys.biz
I originally bought it for use with my aquarium, but I now also use it to make water for brewing. I highly recommend this company. They have great prices, excellent customer service, and high quality products.
Its really nice being able to make your own RO. Also, if you don't want to have pure RO water you can bypass the RO membrane and just make water using the carbon filter stages instead.

 

[P-Lay]

I've installed a number of those Bulk Reef Supply RO Systems and can vouch for their quality. They're solidly built and easy to install. Those auto-shutoff valves are definitely a necessity. If I remember correctly, they work from pressure on the RO-out side. When the float valve on the tank you're filling goes up, stopping flow, it causes a pressure buildup in the auto-shutoff valve, which then causes a diaphram in the valve to cut off flow coming in to the membrane and therefore stop the water from rushing over the membrane and out the waste line (don't forget your flow limiter for the waste line too).

Also, it is well worth it to get all quick-connect fittings when working with these RO systems. The compression fittings are just a pain, especially when connecting and disconnecting while troubleshooting.

I divert my waste water to a 55 gal drum for use in watering my garden (hops soon to come).

For higher flow, you could put multiple membranes in parallel:
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store...ssories/150-gpd-water-saving-upgrade-kit.html

Another option with higher flow rates:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000G7KSO0/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Let us know what you end up going with.

 

[samc]

Pricer than most systems, but the GE Merlin is the best I've ever owned. Supplies all our cooking, drinking, Ice cube in freezer and brewing water. Will under ideal conditions do more water per day than you can think of using. Routing the overflow elsewhere would be rather simple if you wanted to, you could hook up a diverter to send it somewhere else. Filter cost is $100 per year when you figure the RO membranes over a 4 year life.

 

[CollinsBrew]

I googled these systems and am wondering what the huge benefit is. Other than people that live in a place with non-potable drinking water, what does it do for you besides waste a whole lot of water?

 

[Bobby_M]

This is where you start researching brewing water chemistry. Without repeating everything that's already out there, some source water is too rich in certain ions like Calcium, etc to allow you to brew certain styles.

 

[zymurgy101]

I googled these systems and am wondering what the huge benefit is. Other than people that live in a place with non-potable drinking water, what does it do for you besides waste a whole lot of water?

Actually, I don't use mine for brewing; it's for my SPS coral tank.

 

[JohnTheBrewist]

I realize that I'm little late getting in on this thread, but I wanted to point out that the GE Merlin systems have been discontinued. The company will only continue to stock repair parts for another 5 years.

It sounds to me like the BRS or filterguys systems will be the best options.

Also, for those of you using RO, are any of you using softeners prior to it?

Moose

 

[Dwain]

Oddly enough, I was just writing about this on another thread. My well water is as funky as zoo dirt. I just put a 6k$ system on it. They "gave" me a small RO unit (50gpd). I had them mount it in my well house so I could put a carboy under the spout to collect for brew day. The waste goes back down into the well. My water in the house is fine for cooking and drinking. I use the RO water for lighter ales and lagers. They way I figure it, with the cost of the well and softner set up, it should start paying for itself in 57 years. In all honesty though, my water was so bad, it's worth it. - Dwain

 

[Ricand]

I'll jump in late too. I called these guys and told them I wanted a Merlin system after some research. They went through a great process of assessing my needs and told me I didn't want the Merlin. I got a double tank system that keeps 15 gallons of RO under pressure. It recirculates a portion of the water to keep the waste at a minimum and automatically shuts off when the tanks are full. I'm pretty happy with it. It's worth a call to just pick their brains on RO systems, even if you don't buy from them.

 

[brewman !]

I need 25 gallons per day of RO or demineralized water for a humidification system. I'll also use RO water for brewing some of my beers.

The supplied RO water doesn't need to be pressurized. I'd rather not be running 100 gallons of water down the drain (4:1) to get the RO humidification water.

Is there a way to set up an RO system to operate at a 1:1 ratio for my situation ?