Holy Moley That's SOUR!

[Pangea]

No, not infected sour. Hoegarten (sp?) sour.

I made a honey weizen AG kit from northern brewer. It's basically a 50/50 grain bill of 2 row and white wheat, oh and 1 lb honey at 1 min boil. The yeast is Wyeast 1010 american wheat.

Man, I am kind of shocked how sour it is. I had a true belgian wit the other day and this tastes like it. A little pungent and sour. It's good, but nothing like I expected. Is it the honey maybe? The yeast description doesn't say it should be that sour and phenolic.

Anyone else notice this with WYeast 1010?

 

[Saccharomyces]

The tartness of a Wit comes from the high % of unmalted wheat.

 

[Bob]

Welllll...and other possibilities. Lactic fermentation, addition of acid or acid malt to the grist, spices, and yeah, unmalted wheat. But it's just one of many.

According to what you listed, Pangea, I don't see any reason why you should have gotten sourness except by inadvertent infection by some lactic acid producing bug. It certainly shouldn't be sour.

Bob

 

[Pangea]

I just checked the ingredients from my notes and see it was Weyermann Pale Wheat. I thought this would imply a malted wheat product. I guess those crazy germans know what they're doing. This makes sense as the source of the tartness. Thanks!

Another question - if I used say, Rahr white wheat, how would I know if it's malted or not? I'm new to using wheat, so excuse the ignorance. I've looked at several homebrew websites and they dont say anything about unmalted or malted when describing the wheat. Would you expect similar tart effects from all basic wheats? Or are some 100% malted?

 

[Pangea]

Welllll...and other possibilities. Lactic fermentation, addition of acid or acid malt to the grist, spices, and yeah, unmalted wheat. But it's just one of many.

According to what you listed, Pangea, I don't see any reason why you should have gotten sourness except by inadvertent infection by some lactic acid producing bug. It certainly shouldn't be sour.

Bob

This one is definitely not sour in a bad way. It really tastes very similar to a hoegaarten. It's still young too. I seriously doubt lactic infection because I never touch my mouth to anything. This went from my boil keggle through a CFC to the carboy - hung out in a temp controlled chest freezer for 3 weeks at 62F - transferred to keg using CO2 pressure. Now I'm tasting it after about 3.5 weeks after brewday. I've never had a sour infection, but I don't think this is one.

great, now I just jinxed myself.


Actually looking at the descriptions of kits from northern brewer, I see they have 2 "sour and phenolic" kits. One is the honey weizen I did, the other is their german hefeweizen. The other wheat they have is an amercian wheat, which they describe as being more mellow and not being sour, phenolic, or tart. The only difference is the more sour and phenolic kits have Weyermann Pale Wheat and the american wheat has Rahr White Wheat.

I think the culprit is probably the weyermann wheat. Does this make sense to you guys?

thanks. Pangea.

 

[saq]

I don't think Hoegaarten is sour at all Maybe a tiny bit of tartness to go with the crisp acidity of beers with large amounts of wheat in them, but not sour.
If you want to try sour go pick up a Rodenbach or Duchesse De Bourgogne.

 

[Evan!]

hehe, yeah, there's nothing sour about Hoegaarden. Now, the Duchesse...yeah...like balsamic vinaigrette. Or try some Hanssen's Oude Gueze. It'll make Hoegaarden seem about as sour as a creamsicle.

 

[Bob]

This one is definitely not sour in a bad way. It really tastes very similar to a hoegaarten. It's still young too. I seriously doubt lactic infection because I never touch my mouth to anything. This went from my boil keggle through a CFC to the carboy - hung out in a temp controlled chest freezer for 3 weeks at 62F - transferred to keg using CO2 pressure. Now I'm tasting it after about 3.5 weeks after brewday. I've never had a sour infection, but I don't think this is one.

great, now I just jinxed myself.


Actually looking at the descriptions of kits from northern brewer, I see they have 2 "sour and phenolic" kits. One is the honey weizen I did, the other is their german hefeweizen. The other wheat they have is an amercian wheat, which they describe as being more mellow and not being sour, phenolic, or tart. The only difference is the more sour and phenolic kits have Weyermann Pale Wheat and the american wheat has Rahr White Wheat.

I think the culprit is probably the weyermann wheat. Does this make sense to you guys?

thanks. Pangea.

I don't think the Weyermann wheat has much if anything to do with it. I've used that malt extensively and never had a sourness issue.

Frankly, I don't see anything in the ingredients that would generate sourness. Wyeast 1010 can be slightly tart, but not sour.

Weird. Guess it's just a fermentation byproduct with which I'm not familiar.

Bob

 

[z987k]

Another question - if I used say, Rahr white wheat, how would I know if it's malted or not? I'm new to using wheat, so excuse the ignorance. I've looked at several homebrew websites and they dont say anything about unmalted or malted when describing the wheat. Would you expect similar tart effects from all basic wheats? Or are some 100% malted?

Torrified wheat is unmalted as is flaked wheat. Unmalted wheat is also, well unmalted. Unless it's one of those, it is malted. White wheat, pale wheat, wheat, red wheat, carawheat... are all malted.