Higher final gravity = sweeter?

[Calypso]

I'm working on a Rubaeus clone. In order for it to end up sweet, I want it to have a higher FG, right?

So if one beer is OG 1.048 and FG 1.010 (5.0%) while another is OG 1.060 and FG 1.022 (5.0%), the second will be sweeter, right? Does that necessarily mean the second one will have more body, or could it still have a light body with the proper mash temperature?

 

[1Mainebrew]

A higher FG means there is more sugar remaining in the final product. However, your perception of sweetness depends on a variety factors, like your hopping schedule, serving temperature, and any foods/other flavors you have on your palette. If you mash high it will help if you're aiming at having a higher FG and should increase the body of the beer. If you decrease your hopping schedule and drop your IBU's, you can mash at your normal temperature and still have the "perception" of it being sweeter with a lighter body if you attenuate well. These are some of my observations based on my experience. I hope that helps.

 

[Qhrumphf]

The relationship between higher FG and sweetness is shaky at best. As indicated above, lots of other factors at play. Entirely possible to have two beers, one with a lower FG that tastes sweeter, and one with a higher FG that tastes dryer, depending on all the other factors (such as which grains you use, the hop bittering, ABV level, etc).

All things being equal, a higher FG for the same beer would increase the perception of fullness and body, and may increase a little sweetness, but could also not actually taste any sweeter, just fuller. But ultimately mash temps do more for providing unfermentable dextrins that don't necessarily always taste "sweet".

 

[Hillsbrew79]

The relationship between higher FG and sweetness is shaky at best. As indicated above, lots of other factors at play. Entirely possible to have two beers, one with a lower FG that tastes sweeter, and one with a higher FG that tastes dryer, depending on all the other factors (such as which grains you use, the hop bittering, ABV level, etc).

Definitely true. I've brewed stouts that finished high, but tasted slightly bitter (most likely from black patent), and had a wee heavy scotch ale that finished extremely low (1.008 from 1.085!) but had a sweet finish. Hops, roasted grains, and to some degree, water chemistry (sulfate to chloride ratio and other minerals) can accentuate sweetness or bitterness in a beer.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Sweetness is also increased by retention of fermentable sugars. If you've ever tasted homebrew with a 'sickly' and 'thick' sweetness to it, it was probably due to a poor fermentation (not looking after the yeasties) that meant there was too much fermentable sugar left behind. This means the FG is high. A high FG due to non-fermentable sugars (high mash temp etc.) tastes more full and malty with less of the sickly sweetness. As above though, bitterness and other factors can significantly change our perception of sweetness.

 

[Calypso]

Hmm. So how do you end up with a very sweet beer with medium body like Rubaeus from Founders?

 

[Qhrumphf]

Look around for Rubæus clone recipes. I don't think I've had it, so I'm not sure what they did. Lots of crystal malts could do it. Something like honey malt too. A quick googling found a clone using it (but as said i haven't had it so zero idea if that's correct). Could be sweetened and pasteurized, common with fruit beers. Could just be the fruit itself giving a perception of sweetness.

 

[Calypso]

Look around for Rubæus clone recipes. I don't think I've had it, so I'm not sure what they did. Lots of crystal malts could do it. Something like honey malt too. A quick googling found a clone using it (but as said i haven't had it so zero idea if that's correct). Could be sweetened and pasteurized, common with fruit beers. Could just be the fruit itself giving a perception of sweetness.

I did, I only found two, one of which people said was way off base. =/ The other one, the person said they ended up back sweetening in the glass. It's not from a lot of crystal malt, I don't think. From what I can tell, the base beer is an American Wheat recipe.

Short of pasteurizing and sweetening (which, I bottle condition, so not an option), is there any other way? I suppose I could use xylitol. But I want to do it legit if I can.

 

[Calypso]

For the sake of argument, assume a recipe that consists of 9 lbs. of Pilsner malt and a 65% attenuation yeast. It will have some level of sweetness, because the yeast only consumes 65% of the sugar, leaving 35% behind. If I modify the recipe and add 9 lbs. of sugar as well, wouldn't that mean that I've essentially doubled the amount of residual sugar, because it still only consumes 65% of the total sugar? And wouldn't this significantly increase the sweetness (and alcohol) of the final product?

I realize there are other factors at play, like alcohol tolerance, but is that fundamentally correct?

 

[Qhrumphf]

Attenuation is a result of the yeasts ability to ferment maltose and maltotriose (and lower attenuating yeasts ferment less maltotriose as a general rule). Almost all yeasts will ferment simple sugar at or close to 100%. If you search the forum for "easy stovetop pasteurization" there's a thread on how to do it.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Also do yourself a favor and don't put too much stock in attenuation numbers for yeast. They're averages based on "average" wort. I've taken yeasts with 69-72% listed and driven it down into the 50s (Sweet Stout) or up into the 80s (IPA) by altering the wort.