high gravity beer not carbing

[jwm1485]

I bottled a pretty high gravity beer just over 3 months ago and still hasn't carbed up yet. I just popped one and still nothing. Any ideas of how I can get theses to carb?
Thanks

 

[MustBeZ]

What was your OG and FG?
How long did it ferment for?
What yeast strain did you use and how flocculant is it?

 

[jwm1485]

My og was 1.109 and my fg was 1.040. I used wyeast American ale 2 and I can't remember how long I let it ferment but I gave it long than I normally would.

 

[inhousebrew]

Here's the deal: high alcohol beers are more difficult to carbonate. Initial fermentation is rough going for the yeast. The high amount of booze in the finished beer is a tough environment for the yeast to work in. It is likely that the beer has aged for a while decreasing the viability of the yeast. I'll also toss it out there (since I noticed your from Wisconsin, MN here) that it is December now and bottle carbonation happens best at warmer temps.

There are several routes you can go here:

1st: Let it stay the course. Maybe not your best choice if you want to drink them soon but eventually, at some point, these bottles probably will carbonate. Probably...
2nd: Warm it up a bit! I think this is the optimal route. 70* would be good. Tipping the bottles to get the yeast in suspension will help too.
3rd: Re-yeasting. I've done this once before and helped a buddy do it once. This is your last ditch effort because opening bottles is increasing risk of infection. That said, I rehydrated a package of US-05 and my friend did Champagne yeast and we each just used an eye dropper to dump what was probably around a metric-s***ton of yeast in each bottle. In each instance our bottles were carbed within a week. Now, if you think you had a high finishing gravity this might be a path to bottle bombs and you might infect your beer either way so it's up to you.

 

[inhousebrew]

Edit above: just saw that 1.040 and yes, that's pretty high. If you re-yeast them (or whenever they carbonate after warming them up) I'd put them in a fridge right away once they hit the appropriate carbonation levels because that's a lot of residual sugar in there meaning those bottles might blow. Cooling them puts the yeast into hibernation so you won't over carbonate your bottles or blow them up.

 

[jwm1485]

I've tipped the bottles to see if I can get anything going. If I still don't have anything after a few weeks I will reyeast them.

 

[Odin_Brews]

So you hit 9.2% alcohol, and according to the yeast the tolerance is 10. So if you do reyeast you might want to pick up something with higher tolerance like champagne yeast. I can testify that US-05 took my barleywine down to 11.4% so that might work too, it's still aging on oak at the moment but I plan to bottle with champagne yeast to be safe.

Of course that might eat the other 40 pts of sugar and then you need a full on bomb squad suit to check the bottles!

 

[jwm1485]

So if I rehydrate some US05 how much should I put in there?

 

[inhousebrew]

I rehydrated a half a pack and used an eye dropper and dropped a few drops (read: I don't know what I'm doing so anywhere from one to five drops) and it worked.

 

[Odin_Brews]

There must be a way with the amount of sugar added via mrmalty to figure out proper pitching rate. Then add X mL of your rehysrated solution to each bottle. hmmm...I'm going to thinkk on this. I also have so bottles not wanting to carb at the moment and suspect stressed yeast as the culprit so Ill give it a few more weeks before I jump on board and start thinking about repitching to the bottle.

 

[DSmith]

I did this one to fix the problem your having. It worked using Champagne yeast. Here are the calculations/procedures (common eyedropper size) to add 0.4mL of a yeast/water mixture to end up with 1 million cells/1 mL of finished beer yeasting rate (below). You'd need to modify this for the # of bottles you have left and bottle size.

Re-yeasting Procedures Due to Carbonation Problems:

Yeasting dosing rate: 1 million cells/1 mL of finished beer.

Add 0.4mL (0.014 fl oz) water/yeast solution to each bottle with eyedropper.
Assume 26 bottles left (26 bottles x 11.8 fl oz/bottle = 2.4 gallons)
0.014 fl oz x 26 bottles = 0.364 fl oz

20.0e9 yeast cells/gram of dry yeast.
2.4 gal = 9,085 mL
1.0e6 = 20.0e9*x/9085, x = 0.45 grams of dry yeast

0.45 grams of dry yeast per 0.364 fl oz
(scaled up) 4.9 grams of dry yeast per 4 fl oz

Boil 4 oz of spring water in 4 qt measuring cut, chill to 80F
Sprinkle 4.9g dry yeast on water surface and cover with plastic wrap, let sit for 15 min
(Note: Measure by weighing full package and add gradually and keep weighing)
Stir solution with eyedropper to suspend yeast and add 0.4mL to each bottle with eyedropper and recap with sanitized caps.

 

[inhousebrew]

Wow, that above formula is way better than my method. More work, but probably better. From now on though I'm bottle carbing every big beer with a half pack of champagne yeast. After this problem the first time I don't want to mess with it anymore and used champagne yeast twice at bottling, once for a 13% barleywine and again for a 9.5% RIS and each carbed up in a little over a week.

 

[DSmith]

Wow, that above formula is way better than my method. More work, but probably better. From now on though I'm bottle carbing every big beer with a half pack of champagne yeast. After this problem the first time I don't want to mess with it anymore and used champagne yeast twice at bottling, once for a 13% barleywine and again for a 9.5% RIS and each carbed up in a little over a week.

What I listed above is for fixing a batch that's bottled and not carbonating (even with long storage at 70F). I hope to never need to do that again because there's a lot of waiting and wasted sweetened beer.

I'm almost at the point of adding fresh yeast every beer I bottle for consitent carbonating time and less time stored at bottle carbonation temperatures. I gelatin many beers (when appropriate to the style) in primary/secondary and reyeasting gives a very professional dusting of yeast. Champagne yeast seems like cheap insurance for high gravity beers. Here is another set of procedures for using gelatin in primary/secondary and adding rehydrated dry yeast in a bottling bucket:

Gelatin Procedures (example is for a 3.5 gallon batch):

Cold crash beer for 24 hours
Mix 3.25 gram (1 gram per gallon of finished beer) Knox unflavored gelatin in 4 fl oz of room temperature water
(Note: Measure by weighing full package and add gradually and keep weighing)
Rehydrate for at least 10 min.
Heat to 160F, do not boil!
Add to cold crashed beer, gentle swirl fermenter.

Re-yeasting Procedures (example is for a 3.5 gallon batch):

Yeasting dosing rate: 1 million cells/1 mL of finished beer.

20.0e9 yeast cells/gram of dry yeast.
3.25 gal = 12,303 mL
1.0e6 = 20.0e9*x/12,303, x = 0.62 grams of dry yeast

Boil 4 oz of spring water in 4 qt measuring cut, chill to 80F
Sprinkle 1.25g dry yeast on water surface and cover with plastic wrap, let sit for 15 min
(Note: Measure by weighing full package and add gradually and keep weighing)
Stir yeast, pitch 50% of prepared yeast into bottling bucket during the transfer

 

[Odin_Brews]

so you rehydrate THEN heat to 160??

 

[DSmith]

so you rehydrate THEN heat to 160??

No, that's for gelatin - added both gelatin/yeasting procedures I've been using post fermentation. Gelatin gets bloomed at room temperature and then heated.

 

[Odin_Brews]

roger, thanks, I was alittle shocked, Im not in the least familiar with gelatin so that explains my confusion

 

[jwm1485]

I have a mixture 22oz and 12oz bottles. Would I put more in the 22s

 

[jwm1485]

I have 13 22oz and 10 12oz

 

[DSmith]

I have a mixture 22oz and 12oz bottles. Would I put more in the 22s

I'd consider that (36) 12 oz bottles for my calculations and the results will be the same:

Boil 4 oz of spring water in 4 qt measuring cup in microwave, cover with plastic wrap & chill to 80F in water bath
Sprinkle 5g (1 package) Champagne dry yeast on water surface and recover with plastic wrap, let sit for 15 min
Stir solution with eyedropper to suspend yeast and add 0.4mL to each 12oz bottle with eyedropper and recap with sanitized caps.

Add double to the 22oz bottles (0.8mL = 0.03 fl oz) because it's a minimal amount of water.

Adding rehydrated yeast to a bottling bucket for future batches and giving it a gentle stir can be a lot more precise in controlling the yeasting rate.

 

[jwm1485]

So how long after I add the yeast should I check for carbonation.

 

[DSmith]

So how long after I add the yeast should I check for carbonation.

I'd wait 2-3 weeks stored at 70F or more and then put 1 in the fridge for a day. They may or may not be fully carbonated but it should be a significant difference if you have flat beer now. You'll know how much pressure you have in the bottles from opening them all during the reyeasting. You may find some oddballs that are carbonated from the original yeast.

Carbonation doesn't mean it's best to drink. My goal is to carbonate beers for aging predicatably in "similar" timing compared to lower gravity beers but age them at cellar temperatures.