HERMS Water to Grist Ratio

[mcgster]

I just started brewing with my HERMS setup and have done two brews, one turned out very well and my efficiency was through the roof (for me) at 85%.

The other one was a dismal failure and the recirculation failed several times during the mash.

What rule of thumb do people employ for water to grist, i have a feeling i didn't have enough water in the original mash but i was worried about not having enough water to sparge with.

 

[Bensiff]

I can't say I have a rule of thumb. When I was mashing in a cooler I did about a 1.25qt/lb ratio which was largely done for need of space. With my HERMS I'm running around 1.5qt/lb. I did a dunkelweizen last week and had no issues. But, it is one of those things that will be determined by your system.

 

[mcgster]

Thanks Bensiff,

I just finished another batch and i think my problem was two fold, one was the water the other was the distance the dip tube stood from the bottom of the vessel, i had cut it extremely close to get every last drop but i think that was causing clogs.

 

[Bensiff]

Thanks Bensiff, I just finished another batch and i think my problem was two fold, one was the water the other was the distance the dip tube stood from the bottom of the vessel, i had cut it extremely close to get every last drop but i think that was causing clogs.

By water do you mean the water/grist ratio? I have a bottom port on my kettle, rather a nice feature, but even that has a level if waste in a flat bottom.

 

[mcgster]

Yes exactly I think the ratio was off preventing good re circulation

I am starting to see the merit in three vessels systems but that's another topic. I think my coil is far too restrictive at. 1/4" but the price was right (free)

 

[Bensiff]

Yes exactly I think the ratio was off preventing good re circulation

I am starting to see the merit in three vessels systems but that's another topic. I think my coil is far too restrictive at. 1/4" but the price was right (free)

Yeah my coil is 3/8" but not really anyone does 1/2" stainless, I wish it was easier to bend though as it is a bottle neck...I suppose at the end of the day it works to hold temp so as long as it works, may as will not try and fix it.

 

[poptotwoboys]

I typically use 1.25 qt per pound. I have a 1/2" x 50' + or - coil of Stainless in my HLT. It takes ten gallons of water to cover the coil but the large volume of water creates a nice heat sink for mash control. I bought an immersion chiller and cut it up to use as a HERMS coil. I also reused some of the fall off as dip tubes and return lines inside the kettles for recirculation. I left the dip tubes roughly a 1/4" off the bottom of the kettle and it still seems to suck all but a few ounces of liquid out of the kettles. I have a single tier stand with a brew kettle, mash tun and hot liquor tank. Lastly I pump hot water from the HLT thru the HERMS coil the wort out of the coil and into the BK. All this sums up to vary little dead space in the system.

 

[mcgster]

I typically use 1.25 qt per pound. I have a 1/2" x 50' + or - coil of Stainless in my HLT. It takes ten gallons of water to cover the coil but the large volume of water creates a nice heat sink for mash control. I bought an immersion chiller and cut it up to use as a HERMS coil. I also reused some of the fall off as dip tubes and return lines inside the kettles for recirculation. I left the dip tubes roughly a 1/4" off the bottom of the kettle and it still seems to suck all but a few ounces of liquid out of the kettles. I have a single tier stand with a brew kettle, mash tun and hot liquor tank. Lastly I pump hot water from the HLT thru the HERMS coil the wort out of the coil and into the BK. All this sums up to vary little dead space in the system.

I'm looking at upgrading to a half inch coil as well, where did you pick up yours from. The best price seems to be stainless brewing. I only have a two vessel system right now, i would like to go with a three vessel system but it would require an extra PID / RTD / Element etc..

 

[poptotwoboys]

I ordered it from NY Brew Supply, I see they are selling 1/2" x 50' heat exchanging coil for $109.00. My tube was a little out of round, I guess because they ran it thru a bender to make the coil. With a little tapping and sanding I eventually was able to get the compression fitting on the coil. A bit of a hassle but worth it in the end. My system is a manual HERMS with fire under the BK and HLT, during the mash, I sit close by and keep an eye on the HLT thermometer. Its easy to maintain the HLT temp as the temp drops a degree or two, I turn up the propane till it returns to the desired temp, then dial it back down to a low flame. The MT follows the HLT temp nicely.

Edit: Just went over and looked at the Stainless Brewing site, wish I would have ordered mine there. Nice looking coil with the 2 extra bends is the way to go.

 

[mcgster]

I think I'll go with the coil from stainless brewing. I'll try to squeeze a few more batches out of my current setup though. Maybe push it off until march.

 

[brewtime]

I typically use 1.25 qt per pound. I have a 1/2" x 50' + or - coil of Stainless in my HLT. It takes ten gallons of water to cover the coil but the large volume of water creates a nice heat sink for mash control. I bought an immersion chiller and cut it up to use as a HERMS coil. I also reused some of the fall off as dip tubes and return lines inside the kettles for recirculation. I left the dip tubes roughly a 1/4" off the bottom of the kettle and it still seems to suck all but a few ounces of liquid out of the kettles. I have a single tier stand with a brew kettle, mash tun and hot liquor tank. Lastly I pump hot water from the HLT thru the HERMS coil the wort out of the coil and into the BK. All this sums up to vary little dead space in the system.

would you not take into account the liquid under the false bottom as well as the liquid that in the hoses and HERMS coil when calculating water/grist ratio?

 

[turkeygecko]

I run a HERMS with 50 ft stainless 1/2 inch too... Kal clone. It's great. My grist ratio ranges from 1.25 qt/lb to 1.6 qt/lb. I used to have stuck mash problems too, but changing out my keggle MLT with a Blichmann Boilermaker solved that problem. I tried and tried to avoid coughing up the money for one, but enough stuck mashes broke me. The Blichmann false bottom is awesome.

Also with HERMS, I was able to widen my mill gap substantially and not lose efficiency. My mill is set to .045 now, and I'm getting 90-95% kettle efficiency. This will also mitigate risk of stuck mashes.

Here's a pic of my setup if interested: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/brew-setups/drews-basement-brewery-13.html

 

[taylormade4322]

I used Stainless Brewing to purchase my 1/2" - 50 ft coil and all I can say is wow. Way worth every penny. I think it was around 97 dollars with the 2-90 degree bends. Install was a snap.


It takes about 10 gallon on my keggle to cover it but there is still plenty of room for sparge water.

That coil is keeping my temperature dead on the money. It is very well made.

 

[biertourist]

The %Open Area of your false bottom will determine how fast you can run without getting a stuck mash / sparge. You're not going to beat the Blichmann false bottom in that regard but there are other perforated false bottoms that can get a very high % open area.

My best tips:

• Start malt conditioning before you crush- add 2% hot water by volume by spraying in a spray bottle over all your malt in a 5 gallon bucket and then letting it sit for 10-20 minutes before you crush- you will get beautiful, fully intat husks
• Use Rice Hulls
• Recirculate slower

You might also consider using a convoluted copper counterflow chiller or the BrickRiverBrew "Exchillerator" as a combination HERMS Heat Exchanger and chiller; it does require 2 pumps and 4 hoses, though.

Then you don't need anything in your HLT and you'll get very high efficiency / fast temperature steps because of the much higher efficiency vs. an unstirred HLT with a stainless immersion coil.
-It's one more option worth considering, anyway.

Adam