HERMS VS Steam Infusion

[Boudy]

Can you guys give me some input to help me with my single tier design that I want to build this winter?

Probably a gas heated 15 gal system. Although most batches will be 5 the kettles will be my most expensive items so I'm thinking of going with the larger ones.

I'm stuck deciding on HERMS or Steam Infusion for mashing and would like some extra opinions. On the surface, it seems to me that moving steam is better than circulating mash.

Boudy

 

[WAORGANY]

Can you guys give me some input to help me with my single tier design that I want to build this winter?

Probably a gas heated 15 gal system. Although most batches will be 5 the kettles will be my most expensive items so I'm thinking of going with the larger ones.

I'm stuck deciding on HERMS or Steam Infusion for mashing and would like some extra opinions. On the surface, it seems to me that moving steam is better than circulating mash.

Boudy

I have never heard of Steam Infusion before, so I am waiting to hear what others might have to say on that one. I am currently planning on building an all electric HERMS, from what all I have read on hear for me this is the way to go, it just comes down to time, money and designing the system that works best for your particular brewing needs and style. Best of luck

 

[Boudy]

Brewman, Flyguy, and some others have built them and you can find the threads. In a nut shell they used a pressure cooker tied to a hose with a sparge type dispersment at the bottom of the MLT to regulate mash temp.

Boudy

 

[kladue]

The steam injection into the mash method has it's own problems with the not so quiet dispersion of the steam into the mash, and ability of the pressure cooker to keep up with steam demand for larger steps. HERMS and direct fired mash tun would be way easier to build and operate, much easier to control and get repeatable results.

 

[Boudy]

Duely noted. Thanks.

 

[kladue]

If you are interested there is another method of steam generation and wort heating by injection of steam into circulating wort. The steam generator is what is called a "Flash boiler" due to the operating principal of heating small quantities of water in tubing on a continuous basis. This requires some fabrication and it is sensitive to water flow and burner fire level, not easy to control but can function in various modes, strike water heater, sparge water heater, and steam generator.

 

[Boudy]

I'm looking to build my system with as much automation and ease of operation as possible. Lazy? Sure, but fabrication and automation troubleshooting is easy and it's what I do. The alternative is climbing up/down ladders, focusing on temp gauges for hours... You know the deal. Besides, the faster and simpler I can pull off a brew session the more likely I am to get participation from family and friends. Which is what it's really about in the end.

Boudy

 

[Hex]

 

[Boudy]

Great video Hex. Thanks for sharing.

Boudy

 

[dstar26t]

The only thing I don't like about steam is the need to stir and disturb the grain bed while getting up mash-out temp. On a HERMS, you're recirculating constantly and get clear runnings instantly at the end of mashing. With my steam set-up, I have to recirculate for 10-15 minutes after the mash is over to get clear wort.
Step mashes are super fast with steam though. Using a 22 quart pressure cooker with 2.5 gallons of water inside heated with an SQ-14, I can raise 10F in under a minute (20 psi dropping down to 10psi). It takes another minute to raise the pressure back up to 20 psi. This is for 20-30 lbs of grain.

 

[Atl300zx]

i could see them each having their own uses. For automation purposes and lack of having to vorlauf, i am a fan of HERMS.

 

[Catt22]

Step mashes are super fast with steam though. Using a 22 quart pressure cooker with 2.5 gallons of water inside heated with an SQ-14, I can raise 10F in under a minute (20 psi dropping down to 10psi). It takes another minute to raise the pressure back up to 20 psi. This is for 20-30 lbs of grain.

So, you are saying that you can raise the mash temperature of about a 15 gallon mash volume from say 150F to 170F for the mash out in only 2 minutes! That's unbelievably fast. I may have to give this a try. I would love to be able to get near instantaneous temperature changes when step mashing and especially with large grain bills like that.

 

[dstar26t]

Yes, 1.33 qts/lb with 20-30 lbs of grain. It takes 1 or 2 re-charges of the pressure cooker so overall 3-5 minutes to go from 150-170.
You can see the steam ring in the first pic below. There are 36 1/8" diameter holes drilled in it at 3 different angles to help distribute the steam.

 

[Boudy]

I was looking at your H-pipe type input. Looks like it comes from your HLT. It's sexy but what purpose does it serve over a single input like most rigs?

Not criticizing, just curious.

Boudy:fro:

 

[dstar26t]

The intention was very gentle recirculation return and sparge water addition, which it accomplishes. I was thinking about modifying it to have 6 outputs instead of 4. The partial H pattern (instead of an actual H) is there because I had planned to design a motor driven stirring mechanism which would be shaft mounted down the center. Still haven't gotten around to that but I have a wiper motor to try. I was thinking about using a slush machine auger or just simple fabricated SS paddles.

 

[Sawdustguy]

I'm looking to build my system with as much automation and ease of operation as possible. Lazy? Sure, but fabrication and automation troubleshooting is easy and it's what I do. The alternative is climbing up/down ladders, focusing on temp gauges for hours...

That is not entirely true especially if you are into automation.

 

[Boudy]

Guy: I'm learning as I go. Please explain your noted error in my thinking.

Boudy

 

[Sawdustguy]

Guy: I'm learning as I go. Please explain your noted error in my thinking.

Boudy

It's not an error I noted. It is just that your statement does not fit all cases. We are all learning as we go. I made the statement because brewing enjoyment can be had without total automation. You don't have to stare at temperature gages either. Semi automation like PID controllers offers the brewer a basic level of temperature control automation, but you will still need to open a valve from time to time or turn on a pump. It simplifies things and still keeps you in touch with the process.

 

[Boudy]

Guy: Thanks for the input. Like any other eager newbie, the more I learn the more I realize what I don't understand. At this point I'm just about as knowledgeable as one with no experience can be. I hope to learn more as I find and attend some brew days. Well, that and many, many, many, many questions for you guys to answer.

Boudy