Herms + pid + motorized wiring diagram help

[gutstein]

Hi All!!!
I really appreciate all the masters on the forum who helps desperate people like me! I have learned everything I need to build my herms system, and the project is going pretty well until now, anyway, as I dont know anything about electronics I would like someone to help me. My Herms configuration is just like Black Heart Brewery .com

anyway i will not work with brewtroller, but with two pids.

My setup is:

12 motorized ball valves (12v)
2 little giant pumps
2 heating elements (5500W each)
2 pid controllers - 1 SSR OUTPUT AND 2 5V
2 ssr

With this setup i intend to to have both manual and semi auto control.

For manual, I want to have on/off control of every valve, pump and heater.
For semi auto, I want:

PID ONE to control one valve, one pump and two elements.
PID TWO to control 4 valves and one pump.

How will i do that?
I have started making a wiring diagram, anyway I still have many doubts, so could you guys check it and tell me what i need do to make it work?

And last but not least, All my valves are 12V and my electric elements & pumps are 220V, although I have only 220V at home, so, how will i deal with that on my panel, will i need a converter?

I am sorry for my fool questions and I really hope you help me!

Cheers!

Fernando Nunes
Beer Lover from Brazil

 

[Budzu]

Hi and welcome to the forum! You have an ambitious project.
Firstly you really cannot replace the functionality and automation of a brewtroller unit with 2 PIDs. The PID controllers have single outputs and will only be able to deal with coordinating temperature with output, not sequences of events.
I just really don't see how this is possible:

PID ONE to control one valve, one pump and two elements.
PID TWO to control 4 valves and one pump.

If I'm missing something, my apologies. But it seems you are going to need some multi-output controller.

 

[Squeeky]

+1 above

For automation there is really two commercial choices Brewtroller and BCS. Both are much more advanced then 2 PIDs. I'm currently in the debate between the two, Brewtroller is open-source which is a big plus as I would like to contribute to the development. However it my research the BCS is much more plug and play.

FYI you will also need relays to control the switches and PSU. I recommend spending a few days reading the old threads on ECC forums (BCS maker) and Brewtroller foums. There is some amazing info, as I've been reading up myself.

There is also the option of using Adurino programming but it's a whole different territory

 

[copyright1997]

I should let the OP answer, but I just got done reading the thread on the blackheart brewery so I will chime in. Here's the thread: Arduino based micro controller to. While blackheart was originally going to use a Arduino based micro controller, he eventually converted over to use a BrewTroller setup.

 

[TriangleIL]

I'm not sure if you can control the valves as planned without having either a BCS/Brewtroller, or writing your own software on a microcontroller (Arduino/Netduino) or PC that uses various off the shelf hardware (such as I2C). It really just depends on how in depth you plan to get with the whole thing. I would personally recommend doing everything in "manual" mode before going down the automation road. Once you know that things are working the way you want them to work, it is much easier to then add automation to your system (especially if you already have components like motorized ball valves, electronic temperature sensors, etc). Just my 2 cents.

 

[gutstein]

I am impressed by how fast I got the answers! Thanks for that!

Actually, I have already read lots of forum threads about BCS and Brewtroller. Firstly I would like to go with BCS - because is easier to setup, anyway I realized that there is only 4 5v outputs, then it will be impossible to control all the valves too. Is it possible?

If I go with pids my huge doubt is if its possible to use the same Solid State Relay output to control 3 devices. Is it possible?

How can i control 2 electric 5500W elements with just one PID SSR output?

Thanks !
Fernando Nunes

 

[Budzu]

The BCS 460 actually has 6 outputs.

The only way a PID can control two elements is if it uses one at a time, or if it is wired to two ssr's, and the elements will be doing the same thing at the same time.

If I go with pids my huge doubt is if its possible to use the same Solid State Relay output to control 3 devices. Is it possible?

No not possible. Explore other options, you're going to need many more components to do this. Each output will need its own separate control and relay.

How can i control 2 electric 5500W elements with just one PID SSR output?

You can do this, but you will need a DPDT switch and relay to choose which element the PID is controlling. You will not be able to run both at the same time unless they are doing the same thing, and like I said above this will require two SSR's.

Keep researching! There's lots of info on other people's builds here. I must go brew beer so good luck!

 

[audger]

If I go with pids my huge doubt is if its possible to use the same Solid State Relay output to control 3 devices. Is it possible?

well, its possible IF all 3 things will be switched at the same time. think of a SSR as a regular switch; as long as you want all devices that it controls to go on and off together, and the total power draw of the devices is not more than the switch (or SSR) is rated for, yes you can control several things with one SSR.

How can i control 2 electric 5500W elements with just one PID SSR output?

you can connect the control signal output of the PID to two or more SSRs. they will be switched together/are not indipendant (as there is only one control signal per PID). PIDs have a max control signal current (say 200mA); and if each SSR takes 20mA to operate, then you can connect up to 10 SSRs in parrallel.