Help with NZ hops

[MotoGP1000]

So ive been reading about my NZ hops I’ve just acquired. Have some Motueka, Vic Secret, and Enigma. What I’m not sure about is the order I should Be shooting for.

In my head I’m thinking that the enigma since the alphas are so large (18%) and that would be great for bittering. But then I have my other hops. my vics are 14% and my motueka are 6%.

I’m reading where some are saying motueka is great for all purpose and the vics and the enigmas should be late/Whirlpool/dry hop additions?

Thoughts?

My grain bill is simple. 80%2row with 20% flakes oats. Using 1318 yeast strand


My lasting brew was underwhelming with Apollo hops. On my part I did mess up the ibu calc and only got around 45ibus.....

 

[thehaze]

I used Motueka and Enigma in my latest 4.6% Session IPA with very good results: it smelled basically like week, pine, citrus, some sweet fruit with a bit of dankness ( had also El Dorado and Idaho 7 in there ).

I would not used Enigma and Vic Secret for bittering. I would actually not bitter at all. Your first hop addition should be in the last 15 minutes or so of the boil. Do a big whirlpool and dry hop.

 

[Sparkncode]

Motueka makes a nice SMaSH beer.
Ive been tweaking my first recipe to get more flavour/aroma as I'm still learning but i did a 32IBU 5.5% smash with ordinary 5.5KG ale malt and 100g of motueka and it comes out good.

 

[MotoGP1000]

I used Motueka and Enigma in my latest 4.6% Session IPA with very good results: it smelled basically like week, pine, citrus, some sweet fruit with a bit of dankness ( had also El Dorado and Idaho 7 in there ).

I would not used Enigma and Vic Secret for bittering. I would actually not bitter at all. Your first hop addition should be in the last 15 minutes or so of the boil. Do a big whirlpool and dry hop.

Thanks. Yeah the Vic secret hops have a ridic alpha of 21%. My enigma won’t come in until tomorrow so I’ll know more then but I’m expecting high on those also. Motueka was 6.7%.

No bittering? Wouldn’t that make it too sweet? Was kicking around motueka at the beginning then not continue hop additions until 15min. With high alpha hops I should get decent ipa bittering but at 15min still retain aroma and flavor. At least that’s my thought. Total ibu on this brew is estimated high...

 

[thehaze]

I haven't had sweet beers resulting from only adding first hops in the last 15-20 minutes in the boil. Sweet beer is a result of something else and not the lack of a classic 60 minutes bittering addition.

 

[MotoGP1000]

I haven't had sweet beers resulting from only adding first hops in the last 15-20 minutes in the boil. Sweet beer is a result of something else and not the lack of a classic 60 minutes bittering addition.

I guess if the alphas are high enough in the late hop additions then it really wouldn’t matter?

What’s the benefit/loss of traditional 60 minute bittering hop addition vs waiting to place 1st hop until late in the boil?

 

[thehaze]

For me, the bitterness seems smoother, more so when using a low-ish AA% hop, like Amarillo, Motueka, Cascade, etc. Late additions and flameout hops will still add bitterness. You will stop extracting bitterness during a whirlpool done at a lower temp. and here I usually go down under 158F for 15-30 minutes. It seems like you are making a NEIPA due to the yeast and oats and hops, but your last one already had 45 IBUs and you were not happy. So you are actually making a classic, bitter West Coast right?

Still, for West Coast IPAs, I still don't employ a 60 minutes bittering addition and I simply adjust my soft water to include more sulfates, in order to make whatever bitterness I have, pop more and enhance the dryness of the beer.

I am not a fan of insane/intense bitterness, but I do like a beer that is crisp, dry and easy drinking. And crisp, dry and easy drinking can be achieved in many ways and most times, without adding a whole lot of bitterness.

 

[MotoGP1000]

Yeah you’d be correct that I’m shooting for a NEIPA. Also trying for a more yellow hairy color hence the Golden Promise.

My last ipa was:
63% 2row
13% American 10l
13% white wheat
10% flakes oats.
Vermont gigayeast
I dint get the color I really wanted but that was probably the 10L. I also feel like it was overly sweet with too much biscuit? I’m still learning describing my grain flavors... that’s why I feel like it wasn’t under hopped. Or maybe those hops (Apollo, Columbus) didn’t mix well my grains. I just didn’t think the hops and grains balanced well on that batch.

I don’t necessarily want west coast level bitterness but if The hops notes come through fully then I wouldn’t view it a negative thing.

I typcislly hopstand after flameout and stir occsionally for 30min. My temp last time was around...170? That
Wouldn’t lend to bitterness at that temp right?

Oh and im still trying to wrap my head around chemistry. I use spring water but I’d like to get more scientific. I read the sticky but I just came up with more questions.

 

[jjw5015]

Using any of those for bittering is wasteful. Save them for whirlpool and later.

 

[MotoGP1000]

Just an update. I used .5 oz of motueka at 45 min. Everything else was dropped at 10min, 5min, and then hopstsnd @ 170degrees. Will let you know how it goes

 

[MotoGP1000]

For me, the bitterness seems smoother, more so when using a low-ish AA% hop, like Amarillo, Motueka, Cascade, etc. Late additions and flameout hops will still add bitterness. You will stop extracting bitterness during a whirlpool done at a lower temp. and here I usually go down under 158F for 15-30 minutes. It seems like you are making a NEIPA due to the yeast and oats and hops, but your last one already had 45 IBUs and you were not happy. So you are actually making a classic, bitter West Coast right?

Still, for West Coast IPAs, I still don't employ a 60 minutes bittering addition and I simply adjust my soft water to include more sulfates, in order to make whatever bitterness I have, pop more and enhance the dryness of the beer.

I am not a fan of insane/intense bitterness, but I do like a beer that is crisp, dry and easy drinking. And crisp, dry and easy drinking can be achieved in many ways and most times, without adding a whole lot of bitterness.

Aight. Update time. Using my above listed hop schedule, the brew smells absolutely BALLER. Flavor is amazing too. I do get some bitterness. Not too over the top but good thing I listened (somewhat) regarding mostly late additions. Any more bitterness and it would have been too much.
Also. I only let this sit for a week before bottling. I read neipas don’t sit long. Hoping this tactic works for me and I’ll refrig them as soon as they get some carbo behind them.

All in all. Great brew. Love these hops!! Thanks for the advice!