Help with my Brooklyn black chocolate stout

[mrrrkva]

I have combined several recipes on the board and wanted to see what you thought. My Home brew store didn't have East Kent so I substituted Syrian Golding. Beer smith has this coming out at 6.8%, is that right for 26 lbs of Grain???

21 Lbs Pale Malt 2 row
8 oz Black ROASTED UNMALTED Barley (is roasted unmalted ok?? Lovibond
300 says it has Coffee and intense bitter)
1 lbs. Special B Malt (Dingmens)
8 oz Caramel Malt 90l (they didnt have 60L??)
1 lb Chocolate Malt (6 row Breiss Lovi 350)
1 lb Flaked oats (Not malted, does this change things)
8 0z Black Malt (Muntons)

1.50 oz Cascade @ 60 mins.
1 oz Fuggles 10 mins
1 oz STYRIAN Goldings 10 mins
1 0z Williamette 5 min
1 oz STYRIAN golding 5 mins.

2 packages of Safale US-05

 

[mrrrkva]

BTW, this will be a 10 gallon batch, and I will add 30 g of Gypsum, and ue 2 whirlfloc tablets 15 min before end of boil.

 

[wonderbread23]

Couple things, looking at it quickly.

- I wouldn't add 30 grams of gypsum. That's a lot. What is your thinking for adding it?
- I'd use more a bit more dark roasted malts.
- Brooklyn's beer is 10% ABV. You're gonna need a lot more grain to hit that high of an ABV when brewing 10 gallons.
- I'd use more than 2 packets for that big of a beer at that volume.
- Beer seems under bittered for the gravity of that beer.

Can you post the specs that beersmith is giving you? IBU, OG, etc.

 

[bighorn_brew]

I just tapped a chocolate porter that used a pound of Belgian choc. malt and it came out nice,,,if anything might want to up your chocolate malt.

 

[mrrrkva]

Type: All Grain Date: 11/3/2011
Batch Size (fermenter): 10.00 gal Brewer: Matt
Boil Size: 12.92 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: My Equipment
End of Boil Volume 10.92 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 9.25 gal Est Mash Efficiency 75.6 %
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage Taste Rating(out of 50): 30.0
Taste Notes:
Ingredients


Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
21 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 2 80.8 %
8.0 oz Black Barley (Stout) (500.0 SRM) Grain 7 1.9 %
1 lbs Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 5 3.8 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 9 1.9 %
1 lbs Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM) Grain 3 3.8 %
1.50 oz Cascade [6.90 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 10 18.1 IBUs
1.00 oz Goldings, Styrian ] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 13 3.2 IBUs
1.00 oz Willamette [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 15 1.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Goldings, Styrian ] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 14 1.7 IBUs
8.0 oz Black Malt - 2-Row (Briess) (500.0 SRM) Grain 8 1.9 %
1 lbs Oats, Malted (1.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.8 %
8.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 6 1.9 %
1.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 12 2.9 IBUs
1.0 pkg Wyeast Ale Blend (Wyeast Labs #1087) [124.21 ml] Yeast 17 -
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) [50.28 ml] Yeast 16 -
30.00 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 -
2.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 11 -

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.066 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.019 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.2 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.7 %
Bitterness: 27.8 IBUs Calories: 151.6 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 44.3 SRM
Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Full Body, Batch Sparge Total Grain Weight: 26 lbs
Sparge Water: -7.09 gal Grain Temperature: 68.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F Tun Temperature: 68.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE Mash PH: 5.20

Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 35.50 qt of water at 167.7 F 156.0 F 45 min

Sparge Step: Drain mash tun, Batch sparge with 0 steps () of 168.0 F water
Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).
Carbonation and Storage

Carbonation Type: Bottle Volumes of CO2: 2.3
Pressure/Weight: 7.27 oz Carbonation Used: Bottle with 7.27 oz Corn Sugar
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 70.0 F Age for: 30.00 days
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage Storage Temperature: 65.0 F

 

[mrrrkva]

Should I reduce or Eliminate the Gypsum? I use a starter on my Safale 05..., should I increase to 4 packets?

And to Add grain, should I increase my 5 lbs Pale ale and add to my dark and chocolate malts...... I have adjusted my recipe..... Will all this grain fit into a 15 gallon kettle??

Black Chocolate Stout
Imperial Stout
Type: All Grain Date: 11/3/2011
Batch Size (fermenter): 10.00 gal Brewer: Matt
Boil Size: 12.92 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: My Equipment
End of Boil Volume 10.92 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 9.25 gal Est Mash Efficiency 75.6 %
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage Taste Rating(out of 50): 30.0
Taste Notes:
Ingredients


Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
26 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 2 77.6 %
1 lbs Black Barley (Stout) (500.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.0 %
1 lbs Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 8 3.0 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 6 3.0 %
2 lbs Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM) Grain 3 6.0 %
2.00 oz Cascade [6.90 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 10 21.1 IBUs
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 13 2.8 IBUs
1.00 oz Willamette [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 15 1.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 14 1.5 IBUs
1 lbs Black Malt - 2-Row (Briess) (500.0 SRM) Grain 5 3.0 %
1 lbs Oats, Malted (1.0 SRM) Grain 7 3.0 %
8.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 9 1.5 %
1.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 12 2.5 IBUs
4.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) [50.28 ml] Yeast 16 -
10.00 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 -
2.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 11 -

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.084 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.021 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 8.4 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.7 %
Bitterness: 29.5 IBUs Calories: 151.6 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 63.1 SRM
Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Full Body, Batch Sparge Total Grain Weight: 33 lbs 8.0 oz
Sparge Water: -8.53 gal Grain Temperature: 68.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F Tun Temperature: 68.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE Mash PH: 5.20

Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 44.88 qt of water at 168.0 F 156.0 F 45 min

Sparge Step: Drain mash tun, Batch sparge with 0 steps () of 168.0 F water
Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).
Carbonation and Storage

Carbonation Type: Bottle Volumes of CO2: 2.3
Pressure/Weight: 7.27 oz Carbonation Used: Bottle with 7.27 oz Corn Sugar
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 70.0 F Age for: 30.00 days
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage Storage Temperature: 65.0 F

 

[wonderbread23]

The beer you are trying to clone has an OG is 1.096 (Beer - Brooklyn Brewery - Brooklyn Brewery). They list it at 10% ABV, so you'll want to try and obtain 79% apparent attenuation putting the terminal gravity at 1.020. You should design your grain bill and mash profile to obtain this level of attenuation with the given yeast you are choosing. You'll need more grain than what you are listing to hit that OG for 10 gallons. I doubt you could fit the grains in a 15 gallon mashtun (even with a really thick mash). I would recommend either shooting for 5 gallons and a long boil to get to your gravity, or using malt extract to make up for what you can't get out of the mashtun. When cloning a beer, you really need to start with the published starting gravity and work back from there using the information you can find out about the beer.

What is your thinking on the gypsum? The roasted grains will acidify the mash to the point that unless you have water with tons of residual alkalinity you don't really need it. This is not a hoppy beer, so unless your water is extremely clean of minerals, I'd omit it.

As far as the roasted malt goes, I'd shoot for 10% of the grist. Keep in mind that black patent can be very harsh and acrid.

 

[mrrrkva]

Awesome Info Wonderbread23!!! Thanks.... Gypsum omitted... I didnt figure the acidity added by my roasted grains... .... Maybe I should just knock my volume down to 7.5 gallons, instead of 10, and keep my grain bill where it is. Will it fit??

Should I mash for 90 mins. to increase efficiency?

What about my hop substitutions (Styrian instead of East kent?)

Black Chocolate Stout
Oatmeal Stout
Type: All Grain Date: 11/3/2011
Batch Size (fermenter): 7.50 gal Brewer: Matt
Boil Size: 10.32 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: My Equipment
End of Boil Volume 8.32 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 6.75 gal Est Mash Efficiency 76.8 %
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage Taste Rating(out of 50): 30.0
Taste Notes:
Ingredients


Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
22 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 2 77.2 %
8.0 oz Black Barley (Stout) (500.0 SRM) Grain 8 1.8 %
1 lbs Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 6 3.5 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.5 %
2 lbs Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM) Grain 3 7.0 %
1.50 oz Cascade [6.90 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 10 19.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Willamette [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 15 2.1 IBUs
8.0 oz Black Malt - 2-Row (Briess) (500.0 SRM) Grain 9 1.8 %
1 lbs Oats, Malted (1.0 SRM) Grain 5 3.5 %
8.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 7 1.8 %
1.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 12 3.1 IBUs
4.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) [50.28 ml] Yeast 16 -
0.00 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 -
2.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 11 -
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 14 2.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 13 3.7 IBUs

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.096 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.015 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 10.8 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.7 %
Bitterness: 30.6 IBUs Calories: 151.6 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 64.9 SRM
Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge Total Grain Weight: 28 lbs 8.0 oz
Sparge Water: -10.17 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F Tun Temperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE Mash PH: 5.20

Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 38.63 qt of water at 158.2 F 148.0 F 75 min

Sparge Step: Drain mash tun, Batch sparge with 0 steps () of 168.0 F water
Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).
Carbonation and Storage

Carbonation Type: Bottle Volumes of CO2: 2.3
Pressure/Weight: 5.30 oz Carbonation Used: Bottle with 5.30 oz Corn Sugar
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 70.0 F Age for: 30.00 days
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage Storage Temperature: 65.0 F

 

[BrewMU]

You might want to take this with a grain of salt - I've done a total of 1 stout - but I think that 1.5 oz of cascade is going to get swallowed up in all that grain. You might want to move the willamette back to 60 minutes, or add more cascade - I don't think it will have detectable hop bitterness as is.

 

[mrrrkva]

I am going to bump the cascades up to 2.5 oz, and move up the williamette to 30 mins. Does anyone else have suggestions?

Has anyone tried the clone with success and want to give me input?

How close are the Stryian Golding to the east Kent golding?

I am open to any criticism.

 

[akimbo78]

fwiw, in an attempt to clone their local 2 i emailed the brewery my recipe and they made the necessary adjustments based on my grain bill. it took them a couple of weeks to get back to me. i will know in february if its any good.

 

[mrrrkva]

I would LOVE to see the recipe you came up with!!!! Can you post or PM me?? Is it close to mine? THANKS in advance!!!!

 

[rgonzale]

Brooklyn Black Chocolate Stout is my beverage of choice, and I'd love to know what your final recipe was and if you have any results yet?

 

[mrrrkva]

I am drinking one now... I would reduce the dark roasted malts!! I REALLY like this, but not a good clone, Taste way more Coffee than the original. I ended up doing a 8 gallon batch and Split into 2 batches. One of them I added some Hershey's Cocoa. I like the one I added Hershey's Cocoa to. Good call on increasing the Hops, not a good call to increase dark roasted malts

 

[Matthewjscott]

@akimbo78
Could you please post the recipe they gave you or PM me with it?