1MadScientist
Well-Known Member
I looked at your English bitter numbers, they look good.
Are you using a barley crusher by chance?, or another 2-roller crusher? Setting 0.050" using a feeler gauge?
Help with Mash Recirculation
- Thread starter schiersteinbrewing
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I looked at your English bitter numbers, they look good.
Are you using a barley crusher by chance?, or another 2-roller crusher? Setting 0.050" using a feeler gauge?
Interesting. I wonder what it would look like with no stirring. On my RIMS (which I use a BIAB bag for lautering, recirc outside the bag), I notice it generally takes a bit (15-20 min maybe?) for the wort to start running real clear. At this point, the mash usually has about an inch of clear wort above the grain bed and it's fully set (though on my last brew, the grain bed was at the top with a lot of particulate matter still flowing around, though the runoff was clear). I generally don't do runoff measurements during mash / even a preboil measurement as 1) I don't have a refractometer 2) don't want to wait for samples to cool to measure 3) am pretty consistent on hitting around 78% brewhouse eff.
Though this thread has me want to take at least preboil on one of my normal 0.028" crush (though conditioned) batches and maybe try one on a more coarse crush.
hafmpty
Well-Known Member
This is really cool. Especially since you've been keeping track of it over the course of a number of brews. This looks like what I experienced...meaning I got most of my conversion quickly and then right at the end a big bump in gravity. I will be keeping an eye on this.
I use a Millar Mill set with feeler gauges to .050. It's a 2-roller mill.
Sorry for delay. I was trying to figure out how to display a table but the best I could come with is to do a quick screenshot of a spreadsheet.
These are some of the beers I have been charting. My RIS and Barleywine brews were certainly outliers in terms of the data, a pain in the a$$ for recirculating and, quite frankly, the reason why I first looked into this particular thread.
These are some of the beers I have been charting. My RIS and Barleywine brews were certainly outliers in terms of the data, a pain in the a$$ for recirculating and, quite frankly, the reason why I first looked into this particular thread.
nutty_gnome
Well-Known Member
I use BIAB with a false bottom to keep the bag off the bottom. I've found that if I let the grains mash for about 15 mins and THEN start pumping slowly, it works out. If I were to mash in and start re-circing immediately, it gets stuck.
I also return the wort from the pump through a copper tube with slots all around in the middle of the mash (like the COFI). I thought that it would help keep the bag from clogging and to equalize temp if there was some motion in the mash. But I am coming to realize that less is more with wort flow.
I also wired up a float switch to turn off my pump if it gets stuck. I need to tie the cut off into my heating element as well, but need more gadgets to complete the circuit.
I also return the wort from the pump through a copper tube with slots all around in the middle of the mash (like the COFI). I thought that it would help keep the bag from clogging and to equalize temp if there was some motion in the mash. But I am coming to realize that less is more with wort flow.
I also wired up a float switch to turn off my pump if it gets stuck. I need to tie the cut off into my heating element as well, but need more gadgets to complete the circuit.
Second time today I've read about this method of letting it rest before starting to pump. Sounds like it's worth trying.
Just spitballing ideas here, but perhaps if you let it rest before recirculating, most of the starch or stickiness has been removed from the mash, just maybe conversion is near completion....perhaps if you were to wait just a little longer you'd be ready to remove the grain and boil...just an idea.
But if I do that, then I'm back to the way I used to BIAB with 30 minute mashes. And then I can't justify the money I spent on upgrading to a recirculating system with a PID controller
This could turn to be an expensive lesson learned....
jwalkermed
Well-Known Member
Funny thing. I did a big Belgian today. Started to recirculate right at mash in and had issues w/ a stuck or slow mash. After about the 15-20 min it started flowing fine.
craigmw
Well-Known Member
I occasionally have these problems as well, usually with an 11 gallon batch, or if there is lots of gummy grain like oatmeal. I am convinced that this forces air to be pulled through the bag voile down below my false bottom and into the pump, causing cavitation. I can literally hear air being sucked down into the mash, and I usually try to stir the mash and slow the pump flow when this happens. I have a March 815PL center inlet pump, and it's amazing the amount of pressure this puts onto the mash. I've mangled my steamer tray that I use to suspend my BIAB bag. I wonder if the solution is to just tie off the top of the bag after stirring and then have the bag fully submerged in the wort, preventing channeling that allows air to be sucked down below the false bottom? I could also try the looser milling, as I usually mill twice, with a pretty tight gap.
I believe what is actually happening is the pump is creating such low pressure that the liquid wort is turning to water vapor, a gas. This is noisy as the pump tries to unsuccessfully pump a gas. I'm sure when watches this scenario, it appears that air is reaching the pump, but actually the pressure is so low, a vacuum of sorts, that the liquid wort becomes vapor....that is cavitation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavitation
craigmw
Well-Known Member
This is certainly possible, especially given how much of a vacuum can be achieved by a March or Chugger pump. However, in my case, I can actually hear air being sucked through the bag down the side of the kettle. I think this is the route of least resistance, and the air flows between the bag material and the side of the kettle when the bag is spread out around the tope of the kettle. My bag is rather tight around the rim of my kettle, and if I pull the bag away from the side of the kettle, the sucking sound stops and my pump primes okay. In a typical mash setup, there is less opportunity for such channeling to allow entry of air through the mash. In that case, wort simply stops moving at all and I think that is when you get cavitation.
OP
OP
Had the day off decided to brew. Here are the numbers.
Used the new false bottom and crushed grains at .050".
10lbs 2 row
4lbs flaked maize
0745 - Get h20
0800 - Set-up; Fill kettle; 12gal
0817 - heat water; mill grains
0847 - Mash in at 154deg
0850 - mash ph 5.3 at room temp
0850 - mash temp 152 deg
0855 - 55min left in mash 4 brix
0905 - 45min left in mash 5.2 brix
0915 - 35min left in mash 6.8 brix
0925 - 25min left in mash 7.6 vrix
0930 - 20min left in mash 8 brix
0935 - 15min left in mash 8.2 brix
0940 - 10min left in mash 8.4 brix
0945 - 5min left in mash 8.4 brix
0950 - 0 min left in mash 8.6 brix; start mash out 168 deg; no stirring just recirculated
1015 - end of mash out 9.2 brix after lifting bag; sparged with 2 gal RO to boil vol of 13gal/8 brix; started heating to boil
1030 - boil reached; added 1.33 oz ht hood 5.5%aa
1115 - added whirfloc; yeast nutrient; chiller; started recirc
1125 - added .67oz Mt. hood 5.5%aa
1130 - boil complete; 9 brix
1138 - 110 deg added prechiller
1140 - 100 deg
1150 - 85 deg
1200 - 74deg
1210 - 67 deg
1220 - xfer to fermeters 11gal total; pitched yeast
1250 - cleaned and put up
tap water 76deg; prechiller out put 60deg
I have brewed this 5 times and these are my best numbers yet, even with the .050" mill gap. Didn't have a single issue with recirculation, actually I was able to run it at a faster rate than usual.
So far the issue has been resolved by increasing the mill gap to .050".
Used the new false bottom and crushed grains at .050".
10lbs 2 row
4lbs flaked maize
0745 - Get h20
0800 - Set-up; Fill kettle; 12gal
0817 - heat water; mill grains
0847 - Mash in at 154deg
0850 - mash ph 5.3 at room temp
0850 - mash temp 152 deg
0855 - 55min left in mash 4 brix
0905 - 45min left in mash 5.2 brix
0915 - 35min left in mash 6.8 brix
0925 - 25min left in mash 7.6 vrix
0930 - 20min left in mash 8 brix
0935 - 15min left in mash 8.2 brix
0940 - 10min left in mash 8.4 brix
0945 - 5min left in mash 8.4 brix
0950 - 0 min left in mash 8.6 brix; start mash out 168 deg; no stirring just recirculated
1015 - end of mash out 9.2 brix after lifting bag; sparged with 2 gal RO to boil vol of 13gal/8 brix; started heating to boil
1030 - boil reached; added 1.33 oz ht hood 5.5%aa
1115 - added whirfloc; yeast nutrient; chiller; started recirc
1125 - added .67oz Mt. hood 5.5%aa
1130 - boil complete; 9 brix
1138 - 110 deg added prechiller
1140 - 100 deg
1150 - 85 deg
1200 - 74deg
1210 - 67 deg
1220 - xfer to fermeters 11gal total; pitched yeast
1250 - cleaned and put up
tap water 76deg; prechiller out put 60deg
I have brewed this 5 times and these are my best numbers yet, even with the .050" mill gap. Didn't have a single issue with recirculation, actually I was able to run it at a faster rate than usual.
So far the issue has been resolved by increasing the mill gap to .050".
hafmpty
Well-Known Member
Awesome! Glad to hear.
craigmw
Well-Known Member
This past weekend, I brewed a 5.5 gallon batch of milk stout (with a F.G. of 1.076) with a half pound of oatmeal, and was concerned about a gummy mash. I used my typical gap at 0.038", but decided to add 1/2 pound of rice hulls. I also reduced the mash volume and added a sparge step, so it was a thicker than usual mash. I had a nice glossy wort in about 10 minutes and no recirculation problems. I think two things helped with this. First, the rice hulls helped to prevent a stuck mash. Second, I've really only had issues with 11 gallon batches, where the wort plus grains really fill up my 20 gallon kettle and I think the smaller volume helped. I'll try rice hulls the next time I do such a large batch.
virgil1
Well-Known Member
I was having problems with mash recirculation, and had started a thread. I was pointed to this thread and decided to try a few ideas. I recirculate during my mash and during the boil.
I did a brew this past week. Things went really well. Unfortunately I did more than one thing different, so not for sure if it was one thing or a combo.
1. Once I put my grain in, I let it sit for several minutes(and stirred). Don't think it was quite 10.
2. I have a new BIAB bag. Bought a Wilserbrewer bag. So much better than my Northern Brewer bag.
3. This grain was from Seven Bridges(organic grain). The batch that stuck was from more beer.
4. I ran the pump 'vertical' with inlet coming in the bottom, outlet through the top(see pic)
5. I used the hop bag from Wilser during my boil. I had the top of the bag hanging out of the pot and tied to the side. I used Muslin bags before that I just tossed in(pretty sure they were sucked to the bottom when the pump was on)
My PID seems to overshoot at first, and I usually shut everything down(pump and heat) while it cools a few mins. I noticed when I shut it off, some of the grain gets sucked out the top and into the pump. Twice when I started the pump, it wasn't working right. I just shut it off, waited a few seconds, and turned it back on. Seemed to push everything back out(into the top). I have some silcone tubing coming in from the top that is probably 8 inches long. Might shorten that or come up with a different solution.
When I was 'boiling', I set it to 210. I had it at 211 and 212, but I had the issue with the pump 'sucking air' as bubbles made it into the pump. 210 was the sweet spot for me. Every 10 seconds or so, it would boil up.
See attached movie.
View attachment beer.mov
I did a brew this past week. Things went really well. Unfortunately I did more than one thing different, so not for sure if it was one thing or a combo.
1. Once I put my grain in, I let it sit for several minutes(and stirred). Don't think it was quite 10.
2. I have a new BIAB bag. Bought a Wilserbrewer bag. So much better than my Northern Brewer bag.
3. This grain was from Seven Bridges(organic grain). The batch that stuck was from more beer.
4. I ran the pump 'vertical' with inlet coming in the bottom, outlet through the top(see pic)
5. I used the hop bag from Wilser during my boil. I had the top of the bag hanging out of the pot and tied to the side. I used Muslin bags before that I just tossed in(pretty sure they were sucked to the bottom when the pump was on)
My PID seems to overshoot at first, and I usually shut everything down(pump and heat) while it cools a few mins. I noticed when I shut it off, some of the grain gets sucked out the top and into the pump. Twice when I started the pump, it wasn't working right. I just shut it off, waited a few seconds, and turned it back on. Seemed to push everything back out(into the top). I have some silcone tubing coming in from the top that is probably 8 inches long. Might shorten that or come up with a different solution.
When I was 'boiling', I set it to 210. I had it at 211 and 212, but I had the issue with the pump 'sucking air' as bubbles made it into the pump. 210 was the sweet spot for me. Every 10 seconds or so, it would boil up.
See attached movie.
View attachment beer.mov
hafmpty
Well-Known Member
German Hefeweizen
.050 Mill Gap
Brew In a Basket (ArborFab.com)
Recirculating via Blichmann Tower of Power
60 Minute Mash
2lbs 13oz - Belgian Pilsner
2lbs 13oz - German Wheat
10min - 5.2 brix - 1.0213
20min - 6.2 brix - 1.0255
30min - 6.8 brix - 1.0280
40min - 7.2 brix - 1.0297
50min - 7.4 brix - 1.0306
60min - 7.9 brix - 1.0314
+10min - 8.2 brix - 1.0340 (Beginning of Temp rise to Mash-Out)
+20min - 8.4 brix - 1.0348 (End of Mash-Out)
+30min - 8.6 brix - 1.0357 (After draining and checking while temp rise to boil)
In the kettle - 4.45 gallons - 78.47% Efficiency
.050 Mill Gap
Brew In a Basket (ArborFab.com)
Recirculating via Blichmann Tower of Power
60 Minute Mash
2lbs 13oz - Belgian Pilsner
2lbs 13oz - German Wheat
10min - 5.2 brix - 1.0213
20min - 6.2 brix - 1.0255
30min - 6.8 brix - 1.0280
40min - 7.2 brix - 1.0297
50min - 7.4 brix - 1.0306
60min - 7.9 brix - 1.0314
+10min - 8.2 brix - 1.0340 (Beginning of Temp rise to Mash-Out)
+20min - 8.4 brix - 1.0348 (End of Mash-Out)
+30min - 8.6 brix - 1.0357 (After draining and checking while temp rise to boil)
In the kettle - 4.45 gallons - 78.47% Efficiency
Looks like conversion was continuing even beyond the mash out, and never reached completion.
Brew on
hafmpty
Well-Known Member
Looks like conversion was continuing even beyond the mash out, and never reached completion.
Brew on
Maybe...but I think it might be due to the wheat malt being "stickier" and so the wort not flowing through the gain bed quite so easily. I didn't stir much but when I did my gravity shot up quite a bit.
I brewed back-to-back batches of the same beer and got the same results. Visual conversion test read complete at 60 minutes on both.
Regardless, the topic was first about help with mash recirculation. I had 50% wheat with no rice hulls and had my pump wide open. No squeezing and no pump throttling. Again I'm using a basket not a bag so that's a factor. I still had 77/78% efficiency. I'm pretty happy with that.
craigmw
Well-Known Member
I note a couple of things that may be a problem. First, I'm not sure why you recirculate during the boil. Once the wort hits a boil, you are going to have steam instead of wort inside the lines to the pump, and this will cause cavitation in the pump. The only time I recirculate during the boil is during the last 10 minutes to sanitize my plate chiller. During this time, there is going to be some cavitation due to the boiling temps in the lines. I usually back off the burner to reduce this, but some cavitation is unavoidable.
Second, you need to have your ball valve on your kettle in the full open position. I understand that you may be trying to slow the flow during the mash to avoid stuck mashes. But, this restriction should be placed after the pump, not before it. This restriction on the suction side can definitely induce cavitation. I have a ball valve connected on the port coming out of my pump to control flow.
Second, you need to have your ball valve on your kettle in the full open position. I understand that you may be trying to slow the flow during the mash to avoid stuck mashes. But, this restriction should be placed after the pump, not before it. This restriction on the suction side can definitely induce cavitation. I have a ball valve connected on the port coming out of my pump to control flow.
virgil1
Well-Known Member
Thanks! I do have a valve on the outlet, will try keeping it wide open when I am recirculating mash. Since I have an electric heating element, I can't keep it on all the time(its either on or off, controlled by a PID) because my temperature sensor for my PID is in the tee of my outlet from my kettle. I need another probe to connect to my PID during the boil to do this right(I think). Auber has quite a few more I could try. Would have to think about where I would put it. With the basket in, I can't really put it in the side, but I take the basket out when I remove the grain.
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=20_15
craigmw
Well-Known Member
Which Auber PID do you have? I think they sell some units that allow manual control as well as PID control. Under manual control, you just set a percentage that will remain steady. Before the boil, you set the manual percentage to 100% and then back this off to a lower setting to maintain an appropriate boil off rate.
I see that your probe is affixed to the kettle manifold, which is where mine is, so I understand the need for recirculation. I have thought about installing a probe (or a thermowell) in the side of the kettle. I understand the issue of the bag, but I would place mine below the level of my "false bottom" (a steamer tray that fits my kettle). You could try something similar by putting some screws on the bottom of your basket so that it is raised off the bottom of the kettle, though the best route would be to use a PID with manual control.
virgil1
Well-Known Member
You were right! It has manual control ( http://auberins.com/images/Manual/Manual version 3.4.pdf ). I'll give that a try! Its a SYL-2352.
craigmw
Well-Known Member
Okay, great! That should work just fine. After you are done with the mash, you can just engage manual control and set the heater to 100% to get to boil temps. Then, you can back off once the boil is achieved so you have the appropriate boil-off rate. No need for recirculation during the boil because there is plenty of wort movement just by the action of the boil.
dunbruha
Well-Known Member
This is interesting. I haven't ever thought about cavitation by boiling wort. I have a recirc system (with the temp probe on the outlet), and I ahve been recirculating during the whole boil with no problems. If you stop circulating once boiling begins, how do you make sure that the wort in the lines (and the lines themselves) get sanitized?
craigmw
Well-Known Member
You will still get some recirculation because I don't think all of the wort in the lines stays at boiling temp, and not all of it would flash off in an instant anyway. In my experience, once I hit a boil, pumping does lead to some cavitation, but the wort still moves through the lines, just less efficiently than when the wort is not boiling. I do run hot wort through the lines during the last five or ten minutes of the boil to sanitize the lines and plate chiller without any major issues (except that it temporarily stops the boil due to the lines and chiller temporarily sucking out some heat from the wort). But I see no advantage to recirculation during the boil. Just use manual control on your PID to set your boil off rate.
virgil1
Well-Known Member
I think doing it this way(manual) will allow me to boil harder. Meaning I can have a steady boil 100% of the time. The way I have it now, it turns on, comes to a rolling boil, shuts off, turns back on, etc. I think both ways should work, but I'd like it less 'hands on' and have a steady boil.
dunbruha
Well-Known Member
I'm brewing this afternoon--I'll give this a try. If it works, it will be less wear on the pump.
virgil1
Well-Known Member
Please post your results. I am probably not brewing for 3 or 4 weeks. Have one in the fermentor, then some visitors for a bit, so want to keep my kegs cool(use the same kegerator for fermenting for now). Then baby due first week of December...hope I can fit one in before Turkey day! I want to try some Mosaic hops.
dunbruha
Well-Known Member
Everything seemed to work just fine. I turned off the pump once boiling began, and then turned it back on for the final 5 minutes to make sure the lines were sanitized. (Although the re-circulation during heating up to boiling temps probably was enough to kill anything nasty...) I'm going to keep doing this. Thanks, craigmw!
Pasteurization occurs in less than a minute at 160F and the time goes down as the temperature goes up. At the boiling point it is nearly instantaneous. If you turned the heat off at the end of the boil and hit the pump for just a couple seconds everything would be pasteurized but even that wouldn't be necessary as you pasteurized it all as it heated.:rockin:
pennengr
Well-Known Member
Hi - I've been doing BIAB for a few years, and I'm starting to think about RIMS. Has anyone successfully tried recirculating through a side-mounted whirlpool arm (outside of the bag) as opposed to the top-mount solutions shown? I saw one brief mention of someone's return being outside of the bag but not a lot of discussion. I'm running a full volume no-sparge mash currently, so the mash is fairly dilute.
Thanks,
Win
Thanks,
Win
I've only recirculated outside the bag when I brewed a barley wine and had issues with the flow rate through the bag being too slow and starving the pump.
Not that this is scientifically proven by any means but I would think that recirculating through the bag would help keep the mash temp more even in the kettle. Certainly the small amount of mass that we use shouldn't see too much variation but you could possibly have warmer liquid on the outside of the bag as opposed to the grains in the bag. I would suspect this would be even more of an issue with a basket since the basket doesn't touch the sides of the kettle and the bag confirms to the kettle (at least mine does.)
I would also think that recirculating through the grains would prevent them from compacting and would help in overall conversion. When I recirculated on the outside of the bag I wound up stirring more often. Probably my OCD at play...
Not that this is scientifically proven by any means but I would think that recirculating through the bag would help keep the mash temp more even in the kettle. Certainly the small amount of mass that we use shouldn't see too much variation but you could possibly have warmer liquid on the outside of the bag as opposed to the grains in the bag. I would suspect this would be even more of an issue with a basket since the basket doesn't touch the sides of the kettle and the bag confirms to the kettle (at least mine does.)
I would also think that recirculating through the grains would prevent them from compacting and would help in overall conversion. When I recirculated on the outside of the bag I wound up stirring more often. Probably my OCD at play...
I am looking to build a recirculating system. I was wondering if something like this could be used if it was welded to the top of my lid. I can see a problem maybe with wort shooting upwards, but figured this could be controlled by the amount of flow I allow. Thoughts?
https://conical-fermenter.com/CIP-Spray-Ball.html
https://conical-fermenter.com/CIP-Spray-Ball.html
newnick
Well-Known Member
I use a lawn sprinkler head with a 360 degree spray, pointing straight down.
It simply screws onto a 1/2" nipple in the lid. Just like this one here.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IALPZBA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Works great, easy to clean and provides enough back pressure on the pump that I don't have to throttle the discharge. The price was right also.
It simply screws onto a 1/2" nipple in the lid. Just like this one here.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IALPZBA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Works great, easy to clean and provides enough back pressure on the pump that I don't have to throttle the discharge. The price was right also.
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I was probably the guy earlier on the thread about outside the bag - I've recently switched to a return back in over the top into the bag. Was noticing some temp stratification around in different spots in the mash. Flow hasn't seemed to be an issue either way without rice hulls, but I have yet to give the new return a serious test.
pennengr
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the update, Blizz.
Siberian
Well-Known Member
- Joined
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As far as recirculating goes I've done 50-60 batches on my RIMs, always use it to ramp to a boil, then stop at around 200F. I also recirculate through the whole RIMs while chilling. So everything ends up in the final wort.
Never had any infections.
Never had any infections.
I recirculate as long as I can and stop when it starts to cavitate. I will turn the pump back on every so often to move wort through the lines.
I also run through the RIMS while cooling (when I use my IC and not my plate chiller). It helps me keep an eye on my cooling temps
I also run through the RIMS while cooling (when I use my IC and not my plate chiller). It helps me keep an eye on my cooling temps
pennengr
Well-Known Member
rzwahr, did you ever try the loc-line COFI idea? I'd love to hear how it turned out.
I am using the Bayou Classic 62qt with steamer basket also. I recirc straight into the top of the mash using a chugger pump.
I have had what you describe happen on occasion, although i can catch it pretty fast due to the fact that I have a sight glass on the side of my kettle. When I see the liquid level dropping I can usually solve the issue by either stirring the mash or by backing off on the flow rate using the ball valve I have mounted on the outflow of the pump. When stirring, I have noticed that if I brush along the sides of the bag/basket as I am stirring that seems to have a pretty rapid impact, vs just stirring in the middle and scraping the bottom of the bag. I'm pretty sure my bag is just getting clogged with particulate.
I was doing some googling on it last night and came across this blog post, which sounds almost exactly like the problem I had been having.
I have reached out to Chad at arborfab.com as he recommended for a quote on a mod to the strainer basket. Same idea as what @schiersteinbrewing was referring to above, just using the upper "collar" of the strainer basket if you will. Here's a pic of what I am referring to, although this one looks quite a bit shorter than mine since the blogger was using the 10 gallon BC with steamer basket.
Depending on the cost, I may just elect to have a basket made without use of the collar of the existing steamer basket, as that may prove cost ineffective due to having to ship the steamer basket to him to modify. Might be cheaper to just have him make the basket from scratch.
Looks like Utah Biodiesel Supply does pretty much the same stuff, but since I am in NC it is cheaper to ship from Michigan (ArborFab) than from Utah.
My goal here is to increase flow rate through the grainbed to minimize stratification and to also be able to walk away from the thing without it ending up in disaster.
Currently, I use LocLine as a "sparge arm" to recirculate on top of the mash using just their standard kit and regular nozzles as seen in the first photo of my post. However, I just picked up their flow nozzle kit, which most folks are using as a circular pattern on top of the mash, as in this photo:
After thinking about it though, I believe what I am going to try is to make a COFI-type solution out of this, by straightening it and twisting the nozzles all the way down the length of it so I am getting a radial pattern all the way down. I would bulkhead the top of the line to the top of the kettle through the lid. Nice part about LocLine is you can add or remove segments as needed so if you had a lower liquid level on a given batch, you could simply modify the height of the spray portion so it stays under liquid, then use standard locline links to make up the difference between there and the exit from the kettle. Kind of like this:
I plan to play around with this on my next brew day and will report back the results. If that doesn't do anything or makes no difference, I can always adjust it back into the loop orientation as above and go from there.
**EDIT** - if you are interested in LocLine and want to learn more about it go to their website and check it out - most of these items can be found on Amazon. Here is a link to the spec page for the materials it is manufactured from (Standard Hose and Fittings), at the bottom it states that it is FDA food safe. Had someone PM me about that.
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