Help with ground wire installation (for RIMS setup)

[Kepler]

Hi all,

I am putting together an external RIMS setup and need some help please on how to add a ground wire correctly.

In summary, I'm going to connect a piece of 1" stainless pipe to two 1" x 1/2" stainless couplings and wrap this with a silicone heating band. I'll put some fibreglass header wrap around the whole thing for insulation.

The silicone heating band is 250W and 240v (I live in Singapore so this is fine) and is wired with live and neutral only. The manufacturer of the silicone heating band sent me a separate ground wire.

I've got no electrical experience at all. My thinking was to attach one end of the ground wire to a stainless coupling and the other to the same three prong plug head that the live and neutral will connect to. Is that right?

I've attached two pictures to show the components and my intended setup.

Thanks!

 

[doug293cz]

Best option is probably to silver solder a lug onto the RIMS tube, and then bolt the ground wire to the lug. Other end goes to the plug as you state.

Brew on

 

[tracer]

Both wires from the heater are live.
tracer

 

[Kepler]

Best option is probably to silver solder a lug onto the RIMS tube, and then bolt the ground wire to the lug. Other end goes to the plug as you state.

Brew on

Thanks, I don't have a soldering setup unfortunately... Could I just use electrical tape to tape the ground wire to the RIMS tube/coupling?

 

[processhead]

You did not mention what size of mashes you will be doing.
For a typical 5 gal batch with 8-16 lbs grain bill, most RIMS tubes use at least a 1200 watt or larger element mounted inside the RIMS tube.
I strongly suspect your 250 watt element on the outside of the tube will not have the heat transfer efficiency or heat capacity that you will need to maintain or increase the mash temperature.

As to your original question, you could use a pipe clamp on an exposed part of your RIMS pipe to attach the ground wire.

Any wire connections need to be well insulated and protected from moisture and mechanical strain. That is typically done in a junction box of some type. That would be another problem with the heat strip element you are proposing.

 

[augiedoggy]

I used 1" stainless camlocks on my rims for easy cleanup but found they actually have a small eyeloop I used to run my ground wire through and twist tight.
heres a pic to show what I mean.

 

[dyqik]

Both wires from the heater are live.

No, for Singapore and most of the world, one is live and one is neutral (bonded to ground at the service entrance/consumer unit) in standard single phase 240V circuits.

 

[mabrungard]

Your wiring and grounding appears appropriate, but I agree with the previous post that 250w won't be enough to effectively heat the wort. 1000w to 1500w seems adequate for a typical 20L batch volume. Less than 1000w is probably sufficient to maintain temp, but higher wattage is required to bring up temps.

 

[passedpawn]

[two duplicate threads merged]

 

[processhead]

And two duplicate responses by me. No extra charge.

 

[doug293cz]

And two duplicate responses by me. No extra charge.

Not anymore.

Brew on

 

[processhead]

Its great to see the forum admins/mods operating at peak efficiency.!

 

[Kepler]

Thanks guys, I'm going to give the pipe clamp option a try and perhaps cover the connection area with some high temp silicone gel to protect from possible moisture.

Regarding the power adequacy, I do 3 gal batches and have a 3000W induction cooker as my main heating element. I'll use that to raise temps but am hoping this 250W will be enough to maintain temps.

 

[processhead]

Thanks guys, I'm going to give the pipe clamp option a try and perhaps cover the connection area with some high temp silicone gel to protect from possible moisture.

Regarding the power adequacy, I do 3 gal batches and have a 3000W induction cooker as my main heating element. I'll use that to raise temps but am hoping this 250W will be enough to maintain temps.

Be advised that silicone RTV releases acetic acid fumes while curing. If that is what you are using and you use it on exposed electrical connections, it has been known to cause corrosion.

 

[mabrungard]

When I was a groundman for Florida Power Corp, I had to wash down the booms of my bucket truck and coat them with a silicone grease to maintain the dielectric capability of the boom. Maybe the OP is using that sort of gel (grease)?

 

[Kepler]

Be advised that silicone RTV releases acetic acid fumes while curing. If that is what you are using and you use it on exposed electrical connections, it has been known to cause corrosion.

Thanks a lot for the heads up. I ended up getting some high temp tape to stick the ground wire onto an exposed part of the pipe. So didn't need to use the silicone RTV.

 

[Weezy]

You did not mention what size of mashes you will be doing.
For a typical 5 gal batch with 8-16 lbs grain bill, most RIMS tubes use at least a 1200 watt or larger element mounted inside the RIMS tube.
I strongly suspect your 250 watt element on the outside of the tube will not have the heat transfer efficiency or heat capacity that you will need to maintain or increase the mash temperature.

I use a 250W thermal wire and its been fine for up to 2.5 gallons of mash water. But just enough.

 

[golfindia]

Why does the tube need to be grounded? The tape should be grounded at the plug, no? No voltage is exposed to wetness..... I don't ground myself when I put a heating pad on my back.

 

[processhead]

Why does the tube need to be grounded? The tape should be grounded at the plug, no? No voltage is exposed to wetness..... I don't ground myself when I put a heating pad on my back.

The point of grounding metal objects close to or attached to energized circuits is to protect people working around the equipment. Should there be an insulation failure and the energized circuit makes contact with the rims tube or anything else metal attached to it there is a very real shock hazard to anyone who touches it.

If the tube is grounded and becomes energized, it will trip a circuit breaker removing the shock hazard until someone clears the short. This is the whole principal behind grounding metal stuff associated with electrical stuff. It is a good principle to have a thorough understanding of when futzing with custom electrical gear, which brewing equipment definitely qualifies as.

As far as your heating pad analogy, the difference is the heating pad obviously does not have any metal structures associated with it. Some heating appliances are also build with more insulating barriers than other types of equipment have too.

And, potentially (hopefully), you won't be getting the heating pad as wet as your brewing gear.

 

[doug293cz]

Thanks a lot for the heads up. I ended up getting some high temp tape to stick the ground wire onto an exposed part of the pipe. So didn't need to use the silicone RTV.

Tape by itself is not adequate for attaching a ground wire. The ground wire should either be welded/braised/soldered on, or attached with a screw/bolt to something that is clamped or welded/braised/soldered on.

Brew on

 

[processhead]

Tape by itself is not adequate for attaching a ground wire. The ground wire should either be welded/braised/soldered on, or attached with a screw/bolt to something that is clamped or welded/braised/soldered on..

Brew on

Agree.
Tape is not going to get the job done, no more than you would tape wires to a light bulb to get it to light.

 

[golfindia]

The point of grounding metal objects close to or attached to energized circuits is to protect people working around the equipment. Should there be an insulation failure and the energized circuit makes contact with the rims tube or anything else metal attached to it there is a very real shock hazard to anyone who touches it.

If the tube is grounded and becomes energized, it will trip a circuit breaker removing the shock hazard until someone clears the short. This is the whole principal behind grounding metal stuff associated with electrical stuff. It is a good principle to have a thorough understanding of when futzing with custom electrical gear, which brewing equipment definitely qualifies as.

As far as your heating pad analogy, the difference is the heating pad obviously does not have any metal structures associated with it. Some heating appliances are also build with more insulating barriers than other types of equipment have too.

And, potentially (hopefully), you won't be getting the heating pad as wet as your brewing gear.

If the heat tape shorts, it should trip something. Whether the thing it's wrapped around is a "grounded thing" or not doesn't matter. Human, metal, whatever.... If you're using some sort of heat tape that isn't insulated, that's something I haven't heard of. Cut a sheet of carbon fiber cooking mat and put it between the tube and the heat tape. Or just paper. At 250w, its not like it's going to be 1000 degrees. The whole idea seems sort of Rube Goldberg to me, but I'm a simpleton. Stainless steel is a horrible heat conductor, wrapping a heater around a SS tube is inneficient, no matter how you do it.

Edit. Someone needs to start making Ti Rims tubes.

 

[passedpawn]

When I was a groundman for Florida Power Corp

I suspect this thread will expire soon, but I couldn't let that happen without posting this. Sorry, I always liked this one, and with Glen passing only a few weeks ago, it's due. Thanks for keeping the electrons flowing Martin

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKeqXyY-9xA[/ame]

 

[Kepler]

Agree.
Tape is not going to get the job done, no more than you would tape wires to a light bulb to get it to light.

Once again, thanks for the advice. I've clamped the ground wire down as per attached pic (ignore the plastic ties, they're just to hold the heater band in place while adhesive sets).

 

[mabrungard]

Sorry, I always liked this one, and with Glen passing only a few weeks ago, it's due. Thanks for keeping the electrons flowing Martin

That was a long time ago for me, but it was a good experience. I guess I could amend the lyrics to: I am a groundman for the county???

 

[processhead]

Please report back to us on how your heater tube performs for you during your brewing session.

 

[augiedoggy]

I can step mash at 2.5 degrees a minute with 11gallon mashes and 1800w... My pid never goes over 20% power to maintain 151 degrees on the same size brew... If designed. Correctly 250w can be enough to maintain mash temps but not very effective for increasing as mentioned.