Help with first Partial Mash Recipe (Black IPA)

[SquirrelMaster]

I posted this in the beginner's forum also, so if double posting isn't allowed i'll gladly delete one of them.

I have two extracts under my belt, and one of them was with steeping specialty grains. looking to move on to partial mash. i want to try and make something similar to the Stone XI Anniversary Ale. Below is the recipe from Stone's:

Stone 11th Anniversary Ale Recipe

Grain Bill:
90% pale malt
5% 60°L Crystal
5% Weyermann Carafa III Special

OG target is 20.5°P (1.082 SG) Terminal Gravity target is 4°P (1.016 SG)

Hops:

Bittering at start of boil: 100% Chinook

Flavor hops added at end of boil or whirlpool: 50/50 blend of Simcoe and Amarillo

Target 120 IBU’s.

Ferment with good ale yeast. We used our house yeast.

Dry-Hop with 50/50 blend of Simcoe and Amarillo, use LOTS! (we used 1 ½ pounds per barrel).

Here's what my recipe looks like after using beersmith for the first time to convert it to partial mash. Keep in mind, i use an electric stove that can barely get 3gal to a rolling boil. So if i need 1.25 quarts per lb of grain for the strike water and then 2q per lb for the sparge water, i have to really limit the amount of grains i can use for the mash, or else i will have too much wort when i combine them.

Type: Partial Mash
Date: 1/26/2011
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Brewer: Scott
Boil Size: 4.89 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 90 min Equipment: Brew Pot (5 Gallon)
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
8.34 lb Pale Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM) Extract 66.64 %
2.98 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 23.78 %
0.60 lb Carafa III (525.0 SRM) Grain 4.79 %
0.60 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 4.79 %
2.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
2.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] (90 min) Hops 86.2 IBU
2.00 oz Amarillo Gold [10.00 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (10 min) Hops 11.7 IBU
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [10.00 %] (10 min) Hops 9.0 IBU
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [10.00 %] (1 min) Hops 1.1 IBU
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (1 min) Hops 1.4 IBU
0.28 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [Starter 125 ml] Yeast-Ale

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.081 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.019 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 8.06 %
Bitterness: 109.4 IBU Calories: 43 cal/pint
Est Color: 31.4 SRM Color: Color

Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge Total Grain Weight: 4.18 lb
Sparge Water: 4.34 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F TunTemperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 5.22 qt of water at 165.9 F 154.0 F

Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).

 

[Oldsock]

One of the issues you run into with a conversion to partial-mash is that the percentages have to change. .6 lbs would probably be more dark brown than black because it takes less extract than pale malt to get the same gravity. An all-grain recipe would need about 15 lbs of grain, so more like .75 lbs each of Carafa/Crystal.

You may not get 70% efficiency on your first batch, so take a gravity reading and adjust the amount of extract you add to compensate.

Otherwise looks like a good recipe, Amarillo/Simcoe is a great combo. The only problem you may run into is that the beer won’t be as bitter as it could be since you are doing a partial boil (the wort saturates at around 100 IBUs, so if you dilute 2.5 gallons to 5 at the end of the boil you’ll only have ~50 IBUs). I’d also suggest a bigger starter than 125 ml, say 2 L or so.

Hope that helps, good luck.

 

[SquirrelMaster]

1. if i up the carafa and crystal to .75 should i reduce the 2 row accordingly?

2. take the gravity reading after i combine the strike and sparge water? so if i'm below 1.081 i should mess with beersmith to see how much more extract i should add?

3. I was thinking of making a 4 gallon batch instead. my first two batches were not nearly as bitter as i expected. i thought it was just due to the use of extract. you are saying its also due to diluting to get the 5 gallons.

so i either have to make smaller batch or basically double the amount of hops right?

4. yeah the yeast is wrong, thanks. was planning on making 2l starter, one smack pack would still be enough right?
thanks!

 

[nickmv]

I used a recipe very similar to yours, and it turned out great. I used about .9 lbs each of Carafa III and Crystal, and it's got that good subtle malt flavor.

I ended up pitching into about 4.25 gals on accident (everyone at my apt complex came out to watch and we drank a lot), so I ended up at about 1.104 instead of 1.085. Anyways, it still fermented down perfectly, and I ended up with a hearty 10.1% beer.

One thing I noticed was problems with dry hopping. This was my first time dry hopping with 1/2 whole leaf hops, 1/2 pellets, and I noticed a very earthy taste to it, but not like what I'd expect. Maybe my hops were old...who knows, because it tasted like I had dry hopped it for months. Next time I'm gonna try pellets alone. It's mellowing out with age though.

NOTE: One more issue I had, and this may very well be due to the fact that I way overshot my gravity (or should I say undershot my vol): I'm having the hardest time getting it to carbonate. I used Pacman yeast, which is known to be a very strong and aggressive fermenter, and yet it's still relatively flat 2 months later. If by March it isn't carbed, I'm gonna toss into a keg I'm getting and force carbing it.

 

[nickmv]

Also, you mentioned you were having trouble with bitterness. Are you doing full-size boils, or are you topping off? I'd highly recommend a full-size boil. I do that, and end up topping off with less than half a gal. It gives you better hop utilization.