Help with efficiency

[mattmcl]

I've been hovering around 65% using a 10 gal Home Depot cooler with SS braid, batch sparging with equal amounts at 170. I use Beersmith to calculate everything, and usually a barley crusher set at .035. I use a hydrometer and refractometer to measure wort at 70 degrees.

Now, on the last batch I mistakenly ordered crushed grains from Brewmaster's Warehouse. Which gave me a nice way to see if my crush was a factor in low efficiency.

My target OG was 1.071, but I got 1.065 which worked out to 62%. I know Ed's crush gets rave reviews on here, so I can safely eliminate that from my equation. I hit my strike temp right on the nose and held it at 158 for 60 minutes, with only a 1 degree drop in the last half hour. I then batch sparged with 2.5 gallons and 170, stirred and let it sit for 10 minutes, then repeated. I also vorlaufed. I collected exactly 8 gallons, which is what Beersmith computed. But the OG was only 1.065, check with both a hydrometer and refractometer at 70 degrees.

Honestly, I'm out of ideas. Maybe mash Ph? That's the only thing I can figure that I haven't tested.

 

[chode720]

Honestly, I wouldnt worry too much about a difference of 3% in your efficiency. It is very hard to get the same efficiency every single time, as there are a ton of factors that go into it. I range anywhere from 70-80%, but usually around 72-75.

Here are some of the other factors I can think of at the moment:

Sparge speed, slower is better
Mash thickness
Deadspace/leftover wort in the mash tun
Dough balls
Sparge water amount
Mash Time

There are others, but thats what i have right now

 

[petep1980]

Follow up a 72% with a 58% then tell me about problems.

Seriously 62% vs 65% shouldn't switch styles on you, so you should be fine.

 

[mattmcl]

Well, I was hoping to get in the 70's... I'm not worried at all about the batch I did, I'll drink anything. I'm trying to troubleshoot my process to increase efficiency.

 

[Bobby_M]

You're draining the mash before adding any sparge water right? Try heating the sparge water to 185F next time.

 

[petep1980]

Gotcha. I've only hit 70s twice out of 8-10 AG batches. Once was a 2.5 gallon stove top mash which made the world's biggest mess, the other was a double decoction mash which took me a day and a half I swear to accomplish.

I heard consitency is better than increased efficiency.

 

[HarkinBanks]

What is your SG into the boiler? What is your post boil volume?

And what is your brewhouse efficiency setting in Beersmith? This may be giving you a higher OG.

Also, double check your numbers on Tastybrew based on boil volume and final volume, it may give you a better clue as to what is going on.

 

[ajf]

You're draining the mash before adding any sparge water right? Try heating the sparge water to 185F next time.

+1. You want the grain bed temperature during the sparge to be close to 170 to maximize efficiency. If you use 170F sparge water, you won't get the temperature high enough.

-a.

 

[petep1980]

+1. You want the grain bed temperature during the sparge to be close to 170 to maximize efficiency. If you use 170F sparge water, you won't get the temperature high enough.

-a.

Good point. Beersmith gets this wrong in their brewsheet all the time.

 

[Brew-boy]

I was hitting low number too at one time. For me getting rid of the braid and went to a manifold was the key for me. I also switched from batch sparging to fly sparging and now I hit a very consistent 82-85%

 

[pavyaz19]

where can i buy a manifold? I have a converted 10-gallon orange home depot cooler and currently use a stainless braid. if someone has a link to a manifold i could buy that would fit that type of cooler, i'd really appreciate it!

Thanks!

 

[ajf]

I don't think that anybody makes manifolds. Thery are a DYI sort of thing.
You can buy a false bottom for that cooler from any of the big on-line retailers, but it will cost a bunch more than a home made manifold.

-a.

 

[bakins]

Try to use Kaiser's spread sheet ( http://braukaiser.com/documents/efficiency_calculator.xls ) to help see if it's a conversion or lautering problem. That will help narrow down where you need to improve.

FWIW, I get 75-80 with BIAB and don't worry about it.

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

You could try closing the gap on your BC a little. Definitely sparge hotter, for me it takes sparge water at 190* on my first sparge to get the grain bed temp up.

What is your water to grain ratio during the mash? 1.5qts/lb is optimum in my system.

 

[FlyGuy]

Before you go tearing apart your mash tun and install a false bottom to start fly sparging, try a few simple things to improve your efficiency (some have already been mentioned):

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/maximizing-efficiency-when-batch-sparging-77125/

Lots of us get efficiencies into the high 80's or low 90's with a cooler and braid, well beyond what many fly spargers get. It is a misconception that batch sparging is subject to inherently poor efficiency.

 

[mattmcl]

Well today I hit 77% efficiency. I did three things differently, so it's tough to narrow down which one had the most influence. I closed the gap up on my barley crusher- which seriously slowed down my sparging; I used the pH balancer; and I did a 75 min. mash.

Looks like my nut brown ale is gonna be more of a porter, because I planned it based on 63%. And of course I don't have room in the fermenter to add more water... maybe at bottling time I'll boil up an extra gallon...

 

[WaynesWorld]

If you are using a refractometer there is no excuse for not hitting your OG....One way to figure efficiency is to keep collecting wort until you have hit your preboil OG...Your preboil OG will be under you OG you place into your fermentor...For example, let's say I want to pitch an OG of 1.050 into 5.5 gallons going into the fermenting vessel. Using Ray Daniels, I am putting 50x5.5= 275 gravity points into the fermentor...this means I need 275 divided by 7 gallons preboil = 1.0393 to be collected from my runnings...1.039 = approx 9.5 Brix which is what a refractometer reads...9.5Brix times 7 gallons times 4 quarts per gallon = 266 Brix points to be collected from my runnings....When I collect runnings, it is with a 2 quart container. If my first collection is 2 quarts at 20 Brix it would equal 40 Brix points of the 266 I needed. My point here,is that with a refractometer, you continue collecting from your 1st runnings and sparges until you reach the 266 Brix points...If you reach them before your 7 gallons of collections, you top off with your Hot Liquor Tank...If you collect them beyond your originally computed 7 gallons you continue to sparge as long as your sparging measurements do NOT go below 2 Brix (tanin astringency occurs)...If you are sparging correctly, your efficiency will be there...If you have any other questions please PM me and I will gladly answer...cheers!!

 

[FlyGuy]

If you are using a refractometer there is no excuse for not hitting your OG....One way to figure efficiency is to keep collecting wort until you have hit your preboil OG...Your preboil OG will be under you OG you place into your fermentor...For example, let's say I want to pitch an OG of 1.050 into 5.5 gallons going into the fermenting vessel. Using Ray Daniels, I am putting 50x5.5= 275 gravity points into the fermentor...this means I need 275 divided by 7 gallons preboil = 1.0393 to be collected from my runnings...1.039 = approx 9.5 Brix which is what a refractometer reads...9.5Brix times 7 gallons times 4 quarts per gallon = 266 Brix points to be collected from my runnings....When I collect runnings, it is with a 2 quart container. If my first collection is 2 quarts at 20 Brix it would equal 40 Brix points of the 266 I needed. My point here,is that with a refractometer, you continue collecting from your 1st runnings and sparges until you reach the 266 Brix points...If you reach them before your 7 gallons of collections, you top off with your Hot Liquor Tank...If you collect them beyond your originally computed 7 gallons you continue to sparge as long as your sparging measurements do NOT go below 2 Brix (tanin astringency occurs)...If you are sparging correctly, your efficiency will be there...If you have any other questions please PM me and I will gladly answer...cheers!! -BrewQwest

This works well for fly sparging, but I believe the OP mentioned that he is batch sparging.

To the OP -- glad to hear that you saw a big boost in your efficiency. You are in an ideal range now.

If I had to guess, I would bet that increasing your crush accounts for most of your increase.

 

[WaynesWorld]

flyguy, I have never fly sparged, I double batch sparge in order to rinse the sugar from the grain more quickly. I used to do a single sparge but saw my efficiency go up by dividing the amount of sparge water into 2 sparges to get a more thorough rinse. I know a lot people will disagree with a double sparge...but I leave little sugar in the tun this way and have always hit my Gravity points prior to finishing the second sparge... have a great weekend...cheers!

 

[The Pol]

Have you ever calculated your conv. eff?
Have you ever calculated your lauter eff?

IMHO, without KNOWING those #'s, you will have no idea where the problem exists, thusly you will not know how to consistently maintain your eff.

How can you make changes to a process that has yet to be evaluated? SO what if your eff. is 65% or 70%... WHY is it 65% or 70%? Conversion? Lauter? Both?

 

[mattmcl]

Yes Pol, on my next batch I'll drill a bit deeper into it.

 

[mattmcl]

I brewed again this weekend, but had to rush it so I didn't get all the readings I would have liked. I DID get an overall efficiency of 80%, and changed two variables- I shortened the mash to 60 min. from 75 and did not add pH balancer. Although I don't have the conversion and lauter efficiency readings, this does tell me that neither of those factors influence my efficiency.

On my next batch I plan to take the readings and also loosen the rollers on my barley crusher. My sparging took FOREVER, and I can certainly live with a bit lower efficiency for the sake of time.