Help with a Leffe Brune Clone

[ThriceIn5Minutes]

Hey I'm trying to get SWMBO interested in brewing. For her first batch, she said she wants to clone Abby de Leffe's dark beer, which is not available in Austin and I have never had. Has anyone here had it? Could anyone approximate a recipe? I only have the gear for partial mash brewing.

Is this a big beer in the range of a dubble or a triple? Is it dry like a trappist ale or heavier? I'm clueless here, since I've never drank it and SWMBO is not good with qualitative analysis of beer.

I imagine that I'll be using x-light DME, lots of aromatic and caramunich malt, and whitelabs abby ale yeast, but do I use enough munich to get the color or should I add some special B for that effect. Should I use candy sugar and how much? Styrian hops?

 

[Damonic]

I have no idea how to replicate it but I absolutely LOVE Leffe Brun. My brew buddy distributes Leffe (Interbrew) but they don't import bottles of the Brun into the US, only kegs. During my second trip to Europe I fell in love with it and lugged around two 4packs for weeks and brought them home. I drank most of them quickly, had two the night before my wedding, and still have 1 bottle in the basement that has been aging for... holy crap... over 10 years now!!! Think its gone bad?!

Anyway, it was my favorite beer but I have to admit my taste buds have evolved from loving malty brews to the more hoppy. Wonder what I'd think of it now? Maybe I'm just in love with the thought of it... who knows, but I'd be happy to sample yours if you can clone it!

 

[ThriceIn5Minutes]

Bump.

Still looking for help. Does anyone know where I could find this brew in the states?

 

[Damonic]

Find a distributor that carries Leffe and buy a keg?

 

[rebrandsoftware]

I also fell in love with Leffe Brune in Belgium and I'm looking for a clone recipe.

Sorry to drag this up again, but I was hoping maybe the original poster had found a good recipe?

I would be so grateful if you could share, and in the mean time I will keep looking and post some recipes here if I find them.

Cheers,

-Mike

 

[DZello]

Here in Montreal, it's pretty easy to find.

I can't help you for the recipe but this beer taste much more malty than the blonde, brown candi sugar, almost no hops taste and aroma.

Someone posted a recipe on the forum: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/leffe-brune-brown-any-close-clones-152048/

 

[rebrandsoftware]

Thanks for the link. That's the recipe I'm going with right now. Unfortunately the only person I can find who has apparently ever tried it has his message queue on HBT filled up!

So I guess I'll give it a go and post the results here.

 

[BigB]

Thanks for the link. That's the recipe I'm going with right now. Unfortunately the only person I can find who has apparently ever tried it has his message queue on HBT filled up!

So I guess I'll give it a go and post the results here.

So do you have any results yet? I am also curious which yeast you used. I was thinking about brewing this, I am just concerned that the 1762 might be too dry.

 

[rebrandsoftware]

I have all the ingredients sitting here but my LHBS was out of the proper yeast.

They gave me dry T-58 instead but I'm hesitant. I think I will probably brew this in two weeks, hopefully with a true Belgian yeast.

 

[rebrandsoftware]

I should clarify that I'm going with the first recipe in that thread, which is reproduced below (thanks for posting it, Brew-boy).

It doesn't specify a yeast. The T-58 apparently can impart some clove. My memory of Leffe Brune on tap in Brussels is getting hazy now, but it seems like clove would be an acceptable addition as long as I don't let the temperature get too high.

What do you think? Go with the dry T-58 or hold out and get a liquid belgian yeast?

Leffe Brun Clone

9½ lbs. Belgian Pils malt
8 oz. Flaked wheat
4 oz. Flaked barley
4 oz. Aromatic
4 oz. Biscuit
4 oz. Chocolate
2 oz. Honey Malt
4 oz. Munich Malt
390 ppg for grains
8 oz. Dark Candi Sugar
2 oz. Malto Dextrine
1 oz. Pride of Ringwood hops
½ oz. Styrian Goldings after 45 minutes
OG for 5.5 Gallons: 1.070
Week long primary fermentation, then racked to two week secondary primed with 1-1/8 cup dark DME
FG comes out to: 1.015

 

[BigB]

I'll tell you what rebrand... I actually have all of the same ingredients with the exception of the hops and yeast. I am going with using Glacier for the bittering hops, simply because 1)pride of ringwood is not available here, and 2) I think glacier would work well in this beer. Also, I bought the 1214 Belgian Abbey after work today and am going to try it. So I will report back in several weeks with my results, and I hope you will as well. I absolutely love Leffe Brune and am committed to getting as close as possible. I cannot comment on the T-58 because I have never used it.

 

[rebrandsoftware]

I'll do the same. I plan to brew this two weeks from today. I see too many threads that end with an "I'll report back" so hopefully we will both remember.

 

[Mermaid]

Definitely go with one of the liquid yeasts, there are so many nice ones out there with good results. The Chimay strain seems almost indestructable and is frequently used in dubbels /maltier brews.

 

[rebrandsoftware]

I think I'm going to go with Wyeast 1214 for this one. I'm also going to have to make some changes to the hops due to availability.

I'm getting excited: I wish I could brew this tomorrow!

 

[BigB]

I brewed this yesterday. The color was way off, but I think I may have gotten shorted in the grain bill. I think that maybe the LHBS didn't give me all of the chocolate malt. That would make sense because 4 oz of choclate should have definitely darkened this up, but I only got the color one would get out of one ounce. Also, my efficiency was unusually a tad low, so missing 3 oz of chocolate would have also accounted for some of that as well. Its bubbling away right now, so we'll see in several weeks.

 

[rebrandsoftware]

Would you say it's around 15-16 on this chart? A really dark red.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/SRM

If you're adding the dark candi later on during heavy fermentation that might help a little bit. I've read that it's best not to add the candi to the boil so that you can keep the OG lower to make it easier on the yeast.

 

[rebrandsoftware]

I just realized I have a (crappy) photo from 2006. It was a dark day but at least you can get an idea of the color.

 

[rebrandsoftware]

The one on the left is definitely brune. I thought they both were but the one on the right could be blonde.

 

[BigB]

I would say it is about 15. However, beersmith said I should be at 25. That is about what I remember it being at as well. I would agree with you as well, that the one on the right is a blonde. Finally, I added the sugar during the boil.

 

[Mermaid]

I've never tried it, but the color seems pretty close to a dubbel. In Belgium it may actually be classified as a Belgian "ale" or Belgian Pale Ale (like the De Koninck Special Belge) but since I've not yet been to Belgium it's merely speculation on my part.

It's relatively low on the ABVs (around 6% from what I could find online)

You might want to try a malt profile made up primarily of something like Belgian 2 row, with some Special B for color, maybe a bit of aromatic as well if you're inspired.

You could try a little dark candi sugar but more likely they use an adjunct like corn - you'll have to experiment a bit.

Like most Belgian ales, the flavor is going to primiarly come from the yeast and what temperature you're fermenting at (some yeasts throw more bubblegum or banana esters at higher temps, etc.).

If you're really trying to hit the mark, I would suggest splitting the batch between 2 fermenters and pitching different yeasts to see what produces the closest match.

You may not necessarily need a high gravity yeast for this one because you're not making a strong dark or tripel (but that's entirely up to you)

 

[rebrandsoftware]

Just brewed this today and I would say the color is looking spot on. We were a little bit over in the OG: about 1.073. I attribute that to lower than expected sugars from the mini-mash conversion I did, and higher than expected candi-syrup when my friend used twice as much as the recipe called for!

We'll see how it turns out. So far so good, from the taste I had.

 

[rebrandsoftware]

Here is a link to the modified recipe which I plugged into Hopville.com:

http://bit.ly/9pcPq8

I used Brewers Gold in place of Pride of Ringwood.

Looks like we got 60% efficiency from our mini-mash, the abv will be 7.3% and it thinks the color will be black. It's already bubbling nicely after just 6 hours.

 

[rebrandsoftware]

I take it back about the mini-mash: it seems like we got more unfermentables in there than I thought. The last time I took a hydrometer reading it was a little bit high, still.

The beer seems to be all done fermenting so I'm just letting it sit in the primary carboy for a few more weeks.

I had some temperature issues initially, it rocketed up to 78 degrees about 12 hours after pitching my starter! So I brought the temperature down to the 60s and luckily it doesn't seem like I got a banana bomb. The taste I had around 1.027 was surprisingly good: a little bit of spice and brown sugar.

I have high hopes for this one.

 

[BigB]

That would make sense that your FG was high, since your OG was high. Likely just the yeast attenuated to where they could.

I bottled mine last week. Despite the color being off, the flavor at bottling seemed to be spot on. Had a really strong alcohol smell to it though. I really hope the carbonation doesn't dry this one out too much (I'm paranoid about this because my Belgians all seem to get too dry; plus my OG was a little low.)

 

[rebrandsoftware]

Just bottled this tonight and it was good enough to drink the last half-bottle I filled before the bucket emptied, uncarbonated, at room temperature. So that's a really good sign even though I don't have any real Leffe Brune to compare it to.

My color looked perfect but I'll take another picture in my Leffe glass once it's carbonated and see how it compares to my original shot from Brussels.

I got it from 1.073 to 1.021 so it's a little bit lower on the alcohol than I had hoped. 6.8% or so. Let me know how yours turns out, sounds like you'll be opening one up any day now.

 

[BigB]

My OG was 1.062 and finished at 1.013, so I ended up with 6.4% ABV. Which is good, because that is roughly 79% attenuation and compares nicely to the original which is 6.5% ABV. I will probably let mine condition for another month or so before I crack one open. I agree completely that the flavor at bottling is fantastic! I just hope it doesn't dry out too much from carbonation. I've had a string of beers lately where the beers went from fantastic at bottling to dry/lacking residual sweetness after carbonation.

 

[rebrandsoftware]

It's been about 4 weeks since I bottled so I decided to open a bottle today and review it. Not bad, but it's doesn't scream Leffe Brune clone.

The main problems:

1) Not red enough. It's too dark. I used twice the candi sugar by accident, and I suspect chill haze because it looked nice and clear in the bottle before I chilled it. Any suggestions on clearing it up and getting it a little bit more red?

2) Too bitter. This could just be the hops I used, and I bet it would mellow out with more time to condition.

3) Doesn't finish crisp. It is heavier than I remember Leffe being, and has a lingering malty taste that I don't remember. Any suggestions for making this finish more crisp?

4) Not as fruity as it should be. I think this is my fault. I accidentally let the fermentation get out of hand temperature wise the first day. It was nearing 80 after 12 hours in the fermenter so I had to bring the temp down fast. Luckily I didn't get a banana bomb, but I also missed out on the good fruity esters. Next time (December 2010) I will start it off around 62 degrees and let the temp rise naturally.

 

[rebrandsoftware]

BTW if you want to read my full Beer Advocate Style review of this beer, here is a link:

http://homebrewnoob.tumblr.com/day/2010/10/31

 

[BigB]

It's been about 4 weeks since I bottled so I decided to open a bottle today and review it. Not bad, but it's doesn't scream Leffe Brune clone.

The main problems:

1) Not red enough. It's too dark. I used twice the candi sugar by accident, and I suspect chill haze because it looked nice and clear in the bottle before I chilled it. Any suggestions on clearing it up and getting it a little bit more red?

2) Too bitter. This could just be the hops I used, and I bet it would mellow out with more time to condition.

3) Doesn't finish crisp. It is heavier than I remember Leffe being, and has a lingering malty taste that I don't remember. Any suggestions for making this finish more crisp?

4) Not as fruity as it should be. I think this is my fault. I accidentally let the fermentation get out of hand temperature wise the first day. It was nearing 80 after 12 hours in the fermenter so I had to bring the temp down fast. Luckily I didn't get a banana bomb, but I also missed out on the good fruity esters. Next time (December 2010) I will start it off around 62 degrees and let the temp rise naturally.

I've been drinking mine for about 2 weeks now... My thoughts are as follows:

a. Needed a little bit more conditioning time. But overall pretty good. Probably a little bit sweeter than the original.

b. The color wasn't as far off as I thought it would be... Definitely too lite, but only by a few SRM.

c. Has a fantastic Belgian character to it... As I recall, it hints of the original, but more like a "near miss."

My thoughts on your remarks:

1. To clear it up, just give it a couple weeks in the fridge... alll the chill haze will drop out... Thats how I clarify all of my beers.

2. You mention it being bitter, but yet in the next comment, you mention it being malty... My thoughts are that you have it overcarbonated. It sounds to me that the bitterness may be accentuated by the carbonation, yet the maltimess that you get is more from the yeast. I know this sounds like a conundrum, but what I get from mine is a maltiness from the yeast, but not being overly bitter- yet my overall IBU's is greater than yours.

3. "Not as fruity" Wow.. thats a bit shocking to me... I get big time fruitiness in mine... Absolutley no banana, but that would be expected out of 1214. 1214 has never been banana like to me, more like dark, plum type, fruity.

One other thought... WOW! Does this beer ever give me a buzz! I mean seriously, one or two bottles and I am flying... Major league fusels???

 

[rebrandsoftware]

You mention it being bitter, but yet in the next comment, you mention it being malty... My thoughts are that you have it overcarbonated.

Let's just say I'm not a very good reviewer yet so I'm kind of guessing at flavors.

However, the carbonation is spot on at this at this point (1.25 lbs dark DME is what I used). I think the bitterness could be fading, I tried one of these at 1 week in just to see the difference and the bitterness was very prominent when it was green. Now it has faded some and is tolerable. I bet it will fade more.

What temperature did you ferment at? Did you do the "start cold and let it rise over time" technique? I'm missing the fruitiness and I think I must have killed it by dropping the temperature on it after the first 12 hours.

 

[BigB]

I really didn't keep a close eye on the temps, but I know I pitched it at approximately 75, then it fermented in my basement which is ambient at 65. I think I looked at the fermometer once a couple days in and it may been around 70-72. I'm really confident that it never got near 80 though.

I really wish I could get the original here in the states to do a side by side. I can't quite seem to identify what I need to change. I guess a start would be to mess with the water profile to at least eliminate that variable.

 

[rebrandsoftware]

I know that RFD (Regional Food and Drink) in DC used to import kegs of it, but the last time I went they didn't have it. Maybe I'll give them a call and see what's in stock now.

 

[BigB]

This past weekend I went to Sarnia, Ontario, and there is a pub there that has Leffe Bruin on tap. I am convinced now that mine is in fact very close to the original and if anything needed to be changed it would be the water. Otherwise, my ongoing theory that the LHBS shorted me some chocolate malt is still quite viable. The original had a little bit more of a roasty/choclately flavor. But my friends that had tasted mine, said that they prefered mine to the original because it had less of that choclate/roast flavor.

 

[jimfish]

leffe brune cannot be bought in the US anymore. IMBEV, in their infinite wisdom decided they were not selling enough so they pulled it from the US. my question is, how can you sell it if no one knows you have it?

 

[rebrandsoftware]

I revised the original recipe to account for the transition from all grain to extract. The second batch, using the revised recipe, came out perfect! Here is the recipe:

http://homebrewnoob.tumblr.com/post/2188358734/revised-leffe-brune-extract-recipe-2

 

[kemteach]

To rebrandsofware,

I discovered about 6 months ago that Leffe brown is now sold in the U.S.; or at least it is sold in the NYC area. I always liked the blonde but absolutely love the brown. I have copied the recipe you posted above and intend to purchase the materials tomorrow. I will post my results when the brew is done. Thank you!!!

 

[David Johns]

Been working off of this https://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/leffe-brune-clone with a few other's to interpolate, think my og of 1.080 was a bit high on last batch, but tasted great and getting pretty close to the real thing, been a challenge to get 100%, maybe need to reasearch the water variables

 

[Zver]

I tried two times with brown malt and different yeasts - don't waste your time, original leffe has no brown malt. May be roasted barley?