Help Wanted: Boneyard RPM IPA Clone Recipe

[bobbrews]

The guy spent a lot of time with Deschutes. He began as a brewing engineer, so it's safe to say he learned how to actually brew at Deschutes. Use their Inversion IPA as a base example. RPM IPA is quite similar. The residual sweetness is high despite the FG being 1.012 or less. Go with British 2-row cut with half the amount of German 2-row Pils. No American 2-row. Crystal and wheat malt. 90 minute boil because of the Pils malt.

Instead of FWH, try adding the first addition at the 30 minute mark of the boil. Focus on hopbursting with no FWH or traditional bittering. Go easy on the Citra. This beer is heavy on the grapefruit & pine. I've seen it listed anywhere from 50-75 IBUs. Cascade is definitely in the dryhop. I would probably couple that with Centennial & CTZ. Use Bravo at 30. Free reign on the late boil additions, but I would only use Citra in the whirlpool for a slight backdrop of tropical fruit.

1968 will hit 84% attenuation with enough healthy cells (among other things). Tricerahops is proof and I've personally had up to 82%. Mash low, thin, and long. 150 should be good. Though if they verified 152, you will definitely need a long mash & sugar in the grist. Shoot for an OG in the mid to late 1.060s. You'll be hard pressed to hit 1.008 with 1968. Tricerahops finishes at 1.014, so 1.012 here would be more believeable.

http://hopville.com/recipe/1698545

 

[TimBrewz]

Thanks Bob. We are sticking with the grain bill; we bought the grain and have it ready to go in an hour. You may be right about the grain bill, but I am hoping with a little munich and clean mash, we will end up close for this first try.

We are doing one split off the "mother wort" with FWH, the other ones with Bravo or Columbus at 15 or 30 min(no FWH). I am basing the FWH idea on Zombie Dust, which is the most similar beer I know of to RPM. I have had good success with FWH in many other IPAs and APAs.

Good ideas on the late and dry hops and mash schedule.Sticking with 152 for 75 min. Shooting for 1.068. Adding .5 lbs or 3.5% dextrose to each kettle. Do you think this is enough sugar?

I do not expect to hit 1.008. I think 1.011-13 is more likely.

Cheers!
Tim

p.s. I feel like a detective trying to get inside the mind of an evil genius! Anyway, by this afternoon I will have beer of some sort that will add to the evidence.

 

[WikiAdam]

How's it looking so far?

 

[TimBrewz]

How's it looking so far?

Update:

Our mash temps must have climbed a bit -went with 152-but not sure thermometer was accurate?, or maybe just needed more corn sugar? Anyway, the beer finished in the 1.016 to 1.018 range. There were 4 separate fermenters of it, two of which I kept at 67f. Those finished at 1.016. The others were in other brewers' basements in the low 60s, then warmed up. They finished at 1.018. Anyway, a bit sweeter than we wanted. Regardless, it is 1968 yeast and it is not the most attenuative strain. We got 74-75% attenutation. Were hoping for 80% EDIT: We got 1.073 O.G., so overshot that a bit too. Mashing 50+ pounds of grain in 3 separate 10 gallon mash tuns was a bit tricky to dial in.

Now, the taste: It is very good-has that fruity juiciness I like about RPM. The hop flavor and aroma are also close, but not sure how close.

Dry hops per 6 gallon fermenter at end of primary for 9 days:
1 oz Citra
.5 oz Cascade
.5 oz Chinook
1 oz Centennial

The aroma is wonderful, I need to go get an RPM to compare. The color is right on.

Initially I thought there was not enough bitterness, but as it has carbed up and conditioned a bit, it seems well balanced (even with some sweetness)

So, basically I think we are not too far off the mark, but there is certainly some tweaking to do. It is a good IPA recipe as is, if we got better attenuation, it would be great. Will post some pics this weekend when it is on tap.

Cheers, Tim

 

[WikiAdam]

Awesome, glad to hear it went well overall. Looking forward to the photos!

 

[TimBrewz]

Well it's close enough to the weekend and I needed a beer. Tasty. Not quite RPM but really nice.

 

[WikiAdam]

Tim, the beer looks spot-on. Making my thirsty just looking at it!

I would love to try brewing it, or something close to it, so I'm trying to work out your recipe (I'm not the most advanced brewer, but I'm workin' on it). I think I have most of it; I'm just curious to know which hop schedule you ended up using? And what was your carbonation level?

Here's what I have so far:

Great Western Premium 2-Row - 84%
Great Western Munich (6L) - 7%
Great Western C-30 5.5%
Corn Sugar - 3.5%

Mash at 152

Hop Schedule?

Wyeast 1968 yeast

Dry hops per 6 gallon fermenter at end of primary for 9 days:
1 oz Citra
.5 oz Cascade
.5 oz Chinook
1 oz Centennial

Carbonation to ?? volumes

 

[TimBrewz]

Here are the hops for the 12 gallons I did. The other guys did variation on this.

.5 oz Bravo (15.5%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
1 oz Bravo (15.5%) - added during boil, boiled 15.0 min
1 oz Chinook (13.0%) - added during boil, boiled 5 min
2.0 oz Centennial (10.1%) - added during boil, boiled 5.0 min
1.6 oz Cascade (8.2%) - added during boil, boiled 5.0 min
.5 oz Bravo (15.5%) - added during boil, boiled 5.0 min
3 oz Citra™ (12.0%) - added during boil, boiled 5.0 min

Comments from a party last night are that it is too citrusy. I have to agree. I would probably not do this exact hop schedule again. Its good, but I think there are some subtle clashing flavors in there too. Not sure which? Granted the beer is only 5 weeks old, I expect it will evolve. If you brew I would either add more sugar or mash at 150.

Carbed to 2.4 vol

 

[theveganbrewer]

Here are the hops for the 12 gallons I did. The other guys did variation on this.

.5 oz Bravo (15.5%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
1 oz Bravo (15.5%) - added during boil, boiled 15.0 min
1 oz Chinook (13.0%) - added during boil, boiled 5 min
2.0 oz Centennial (10.1%) - added during boil, boiled 5.0 min
1.6 oz Cascade (8.2%) - added during boil, boiled 5.0 min
.5 oz Bravo (15.5%) - added during boil, boiled 5.0 min
3 oz Citra™ (12.0%) - added during boil, boiled 5.0 min

Comments from a party last night are that it is too citrusy. I have to agree. I would probably not do this exact hop schedule again. Its good, but I think there are some subtle clashing flavors in there too. Not sure which? Granted the beer is only 5 weeks old, I expect it will evolve. If you brew I would either add more sugar or mash at 150.

Carbed to 2.4 vol

I haven't had a chance to brew this yet, but I'm going to go with something along the lines of :

0.75oz Bravo @60
1oz each of Cascade, Chinook, and Columbus @5
Whirlpool: 1 ounces each of Citra, Centennial, Simcoe,

Dry hop with 1oz of Citra, 1oz of Centennial, and 0.5 ounces of Columbus

 

[WikiAdam]

From what I've read, WLP002 English Ale Yeast is the White Labs equivalent of Wyeast 1968. However, according to White Labs' site, attenuation on WLP002 is only 63-70%. I was considering using WLP007 Dry English Ale Yeast instead, which supposedly gets 70-80% attenuation. Does anyone think that would be a mistake to use this yeast?

 

[TimBrewz]

From what I've read, WLP002 English Ale Yeast is the White Labs equivalent of Wyeast 1968. However, according to White Labs' site, attenuation on WLP002 is only 63-70%. I was considering using WLP007 Dry English Ale Yeast instead, which supposedly gets 70-80% attenuation. Does anyone think that would be a mistake to use this yeast?

I like 007. I use it on a union Jack clone, and it is able to attenuate a bit better than 1968/002.

 

[theveganbrewer]

I just had this on tap last night. It's really dry and has no body whatsoever. Was also a lot less citrusy than I remember, this was more piney.

 

[Ailstock]

Hey guys, this is a direct quote from Tony, (one of the Boneyard brewers) about the Armored Fist; I figured it be useful since Armored Fist, Notorious, RPM, and Hop Venom all have very similar if not the same hop profile or taste.

"Midnight wheat ,Carmel Munich , Munich ,soarchi ace , citra, cascades . $4# per bbl . FG 1.018 usually ."

This was taken from the "Fans of Boneyard Beer" Facebook page. Thought it might be useful.

 

[kigerbrewing]

I definitely taste Columbus or some similar hop in both RPM and Hop Venom. I brewed an IPA recently with Citra, Chinook, Centennial, Simcoe and Columbus hops with Columbus being the majority and my both myself and my wife thought that it tasted like Hop Venom. I'm going to keep playing around with different hop combinations until I get something close.

 

[WikiAdam]

So for your 12-gallon batch, Tim, I think I've plugged it all into BrewSmith properly. Can you confirm that I got the numbers right?

24 lb. Great Western Premium 2-Row
2 lb. Great Western Munich (6L)
1.58 lb. Great Western C-30
1 lb. Corn Sugar

Mash at 150 for 75 minutes

.5 oz Bravo (15.5%) - 60 min
1 oz Bravo (15.5%) - 15 min
1 oz Chinook (13.0%) - 5 min
2.0 oz Centennial (10.1%) - 5 min
1.6 oz Cascade (8.2%) - 5 min
.5 oz Bravo (15.5%) - 5 min
3 oz Citra™ (12.0%) - 5 min

Wyeast 1968

Dry hops at end of primary for 9 days:
2 oz Citra
1 oz Cascade
1 oz Chinook
2 oz Centennial

Carbonation to 2.4 volumes

I'm going to try to brew this soon (on a much smaller scale -- 2 gallons, in fact), but if you feel the hops were too citrusy then I might try a slightly different combination. Just curious to hear which hops you'd change out. For example, do you think there's validity in kigerbrewing's comment about the prominence of Columbus hops?

 

[TimBrewz]

Hey Adam, after having about a dozen people try the beer I brewed, I would say its not very close to RPM, or less close than I originally thought. I think less crystal, maybe some wheat malt? maybe more corn sugar to dry it out more. There could be Columbus, I had two guys say they felt like RPM had Columbus. Honestly, I would try something quite different next go around. I am not sure about the Bravo hops, just something about the beer I made that is not harmonizing. Never used Bravo before, so maybe its Bravo? Wish I could give you more guidance or a solid recommendation.

 

[WikiAdam]

Dang. Well, it was a valiant effort. If you make a second attempt at this clone, I hope you'll share it with us! And hopefully smarter and more experienced brewers than myself will take a crack at it, too. (I'll be trying to brew a variation at some point, but after I do a little more research).

 

[theveganbrewer]

Dang. Well, it was a valiant effort. If you make a second attempt at this clone, I hope you'll share it with us! And hopefully smarter and more experienced brewers than myself will take a crack at it, too. (I'll be trying to brew a variation at some point, but after I do a little more research).

I posted this a page or two back, but this should be closer:

0.75oz Bravo @60
1oz each of Cascade, Chinook, and Columbus @5
Whirlpool: 1 ounces each of Citra, Centennial, Simcoe,

Dry hop with 1oz of Citra, 1oz of Centennial, and 0.5 ounces of Columbus

 

[TimBrewz]

I posted this a page or two back, but this should be closer:

0.75oz Bravo @60
1oz each of Cascade, Chinook, and Columbus @5
Whirlpool: 1 ounces each of Citra, Centennial, Simcoe,

Dry hop with 1oz of Citra, 1oz of Centennial, and 0.5 ounces of Columbus

That sounds like a good place to re-start. BTW, congrats on the CDA win!

 

[theveganbrewer]

Thanks, it'll be on tap on the 19th, you should be able to find it somewhere nearby.

Don't give up on the clone after 1 try man! It took 200 pages of discussion and I did like 14 test batches of Heady Topper till I got it close. I'll give this one a go in a few weeks when I'm back from vacation and hope we make some progress.

 

[TimBrewz]

I am not giving up! Just don't think my first attempt is close enough to recommend as a a clone. Wow, 14 batches of HT? That is dedication!

My CDA scored a 34, used midnight wheat exclusively for dark grains with MO and c-60 Simcoe, Columbus 1968 yeast. 1.068/68 IBU Was a bit thin. Can't wait to try your "pro" beer!

 

[thehopbandit]

Has anyone done some more experimenting on cloning this beer? I would love to find a clone recipe for this brew.

 

[theveganbrewer]

I will be sometime in the next month. I'll post when i get it formulated

 

[kigerbrewing]

I just tried your Murky Depths CDA at Portland U Brew. No wonder it won the CDA competition, it was delicious. My attempt at RPM was not very close so I'll be interested in what you come up with.

 

[TimBrewz]

My attempts got much better over the last few weeks, so though I am not super close, the beers all came out good, and got better with some conditioning. The last few pints of the keg(9 weeks) seem much closer to what I was shooting for.

I have been continuing to drink RPM at many places around PDX and I am finding it is not a very consistent beer. Batch to batch seems to have a lot of variability, to kind of a moving target as far as cloning goes. Anyone else experience this?

 

[theveganbrewer]

My attempts got much better over the last few weeks, so though I am not super close, the beers all came out good, and got better with some conditioning. The last few pints of the keg(9 weeks) seem much closer to what I was shooting for.

I have been continuing to drink RPM at many places around PDX and I am finding it is not a very consistent beer. Batch to batch seems to have a lot of variability, to kind of a moving target as far as cloning goes. Anyone else experience this?

I was just going to point that out. It really varies. Hop character especially, though sometimes there is a lot less body and it seems watered down to me. Could be recipe changes or age, not sure.

 

[thehopbandit]

My attempts got much better over the last few weeks, so though I am not super close, the beers all came out good, and got better with some conditioning. The last few pints of the keg(9 weeks) seem much closer to what I was shooting for.

I have been continuing to drink RPM at many places around PDX and I am finding it is not a very consistent beer. Batch to batch seems to have a lot of variability, to kind of a moving target as far as cloning goes. Anyone else experience this?

Awesome! What changes have you been experimenting with? Is it pretty similar to the recipe that was posted earlier?

 

[TimBrewz]

I should have used the word "batches" from first attempts. We only brewed this once; 4 slightly different hop schedules from one wort. So, my only wisdom here is the beer needs to age a bit, add more sugar, and/or mash lower temp: 150.
My posted recipe is a good IPA, better without late Bravo addition I think, but not the RPM I thought was RPM...that beer is different every time I have it. It's like commercial Homebrew!

 

[reefriot]

You guys are close. Bravo is used as a late addition. Look at Londan ale yeast
If you guys like RPM you should see if your local pub can get Hop Venom(double IPA) or there triple IPA. They will be bottling soon too. There in the process of moving to a larger building
These guys are hands down my favorite local brewery
Keep at the clone your getting close

 

[doublebogey10]

You guys are close. Bravo is used as a late addition. Look at Londan ale yeast
If you guys like RPM you should see if your local pub can get Hop Venom(double IPA) or there triple IPA. They will be bottling soon too. There in the process of moving to a larger building
These guys are hands down my favorite local brewery
Keep at the clone your getting close

Sounds as if you know a bit more.
Any thoughts about speculation of a moving target when it comes hop usage?

This beer has been different the last few times I was in Bend. Great every time, but different.