Help! tired of chucking beer...

[calgary222]

Ok, I have just about had it with dumping beer...

I have brewed extract for years and never had a problem, switched to AG 6 months ago and am only having a success rate of 30% and even there some of them have been a little funny...

I brew 10 gal batches - usually ales, my set up is gravity (although I had the same problem when I was doing biab) with 2x 20 gal fairly wide topped ss pots plus a cooler. I have decent burners so I get a good rolling boil and have no problem achieving with hot break. I have a double coil full 1/2 inch copper immersion wort cooler that is always in for the last 15 min of boil and drops temp in 8-14 min depending on volume. I then primary in one of the large plastic bins and switch, usually after 5 days, to glass and then soda kegs.

I use basement temperatures for fermentation and its usually 67 - 69 degrees.

Challenges are consistent with yeasts that are fast and complete as well as slower acting yeasts.

I have to date cleaned with starsan, although last night's brew from the bucket forward I will use soda ash.

My specific cleaning process is 2-3 tablespoons of starsan and about 1/4 gal of water in what ever vessel I am cleaning, I then make sure I have thorough coverage with this concentrate and rinse 3 times. I clean the carboys in the same manner, although for the last several batches I have pulled the spears and washed with concentrated starsan and then rinsed. I starsan when finished and starsan when I start with a vessel.

My problems usually arise during secondary fermentation, where I can sometimes see a dry film on 10-15% of the surface of the carboy. I usually have enough to put 5 gal in the secondary, so there is not piles of airspace...

I have recently brewed an extract and have had that in the secondary for a month and do not seem to have a problem.

I am wondering if I might have too much headspace above the beer in the primary and if I should maybe switch to single stage glass carboys - I don't want to do this as I like the primary for getting rid of break material. This might be why the current extract brew seems fine - I did the primary in the smaller bucket.

The only unique step I might have is that after pitching, I lug the 10 gal downstairs so there is a fair bit of sloshing around...

I just dumped another 5 gal last night... so any help would be appreciated

Thanks

 

[LLBeanJ]

Just some observations...

1) Starsan is not a cleaner, it's a sanitizer. Get yourself some PBW or Oxiclean Free for cleaning your equipment, then use Starsan to sanitize.
2) Skip the secondary, it's unnecessary. Get a handle on your brewing first by using primary only, then return to using secondary if you really want to.
3) Headspace should not be an issue in primary.
4) Really inspect those ball valves to make sure they're clean. Particularly, the one from the boil kettle. You could be introducing an infection as soon as you transfer your wort from the kettle to fermenter.

 

[treacheroustexan]

Just some observations...

1) Starsan is not a cleaner, it's a sanitizer. Get yourself some PBW or Oxiclean Free for cleaning your equipment, then use Starsan to sanitize.
2) Skip the secondary, it's unnecessary. Get a handle on your brewing first by using primary only, then return to using secondary if you really want to.
3) Headspace should not be an issue in primary.
4) Really inspect those ball valves to make sure they're clean. Particularly, the one from the boil kettle. You could be introducing an infection as soon as you transfer your wort from the kettle to fermenter.

For #4, I'm not sure if my method is "recommended" but it works fine for me... I clean and star san the ball valve before I start, and when I get the wort up to a boil, I open the ball valve and "recycle" wort through for about 30 seconds so the boiling temp kills any bacteria that might be in here. Then run some hot water through it afterwards.

I also agree to stop with the secondary, especially after only 5 days. How long after kegging are you dumping the beer? I have had multiple beers that I kegged taste awful after one week in the keg, and then tasted fantastic after a month in the keg. Unless you can tell it is really badly infected, don't dump. You never really mentioned why you are dumping it also... Does it taste sour/infected? Are you hitting your mash temperatures or are they too high or low? Are your gravity readings what they should be?

 

[doug293cz]

Just some observations...

1) Starsan is not a cleaner, it's a sanitizer. Get yourself some PBW or Oxiclean Free for cleaning your equipment, then use Starsan to sanitize.
2) Skip the secondary, it's unnecessary. Get a handle on your brewing first by using primary only, then return to using secondary if you really want to.
3) Headspace should not be an issue in primary.
4) Really inspect those ball valves to make sure they're clean. Particularly, the one from the boil kettle. You could be introducing an infection as soon as you transfer your wort from the kettle to fermenter.

What LL says.

To expand a little, clean all of your equipment (vessels, hoses, valves, etc.) with PBW or Oxy Free at the recommended dilution, and rinse well. There should be no visible contamination. Take all valves apart for cleaning. Also, use Star San at the recommended dilution immediately before use, and do not rinse or dry before use. Star San won't hurt you and is good for the yeast.

Brew on

 

[CorporateHippie]

So why are we dumping beer? Does it have a horrible flavor? A thin film does not automatically mean the beer is undrinkable. What exactly is the off flavor that you taste? Also since switching to all grain..... Have you messed with your water chemistry profile at all? When I made the switch my first two batches tasted very off and I soon learned it was due to poor water chemistry.

 

[sablesurfer]

So why are we dumping beer? Does it have a horrible flavor? A thin film does not automatically mean the beer is undrinkable. What exactly is the off flavor that you taste? Also since switching to all grain..... Have you messed with your water chemistry profile at all? When I made the switch my first two batches tasted very off and I soon learned it was due to poor water chemistry.

This is what I was thinking. I also have a low success rate with all grain vs extracts. I have gone back to extract and partials in the last months for a number of reasons, but this is one.

If your water is messed up, like mine, then you will have all kinds of different pH's and tannin extracts and stuff. I went to half my water distilled from store and half brita filter, it helped some.

Now, my beers actually tasted of stressed yeast and weird tannic off flavors. So not sure if that is why you are dumping beers.

 

[wsmith1625]

I wash everything with hot water and a sponge. I only use PBW for soaking my primary. Use the water to StarSan ratio recommended on the bottle and make sure everything that comes in contact with your wort/beer gets treated with it. A bucket and a spray bottle works great for this. Your boil kettle needs to be clean, but the heat from the boil will sanitize it along with the ball valve.

Someone once recommended doing smaller batches to test recipes and processes before committing to a 10 gallon batch. I would also work on controlling your fermentation temps a little better. Fermentation will raise the temperature in the fermenter above the ambient room temp. Use a fermometer. I hope things turn around for you. Good luck!

 

[kombat]

You've gotten a lot of great advice on this thread so far, I don't really have much to add. The photo shows a really nice looking setup, you should definitely be able to produce lots of great beer with that gear.

As others have said, StarSan is not a cleaner, it's a sanitizer. You must clean FIRST, then sanitize.

The only other comment I'd make is that if the ambient temperature in the room in which you're storing your fermenters is 67-69° F, then the temperature of the beer itself could be substantially higher than that, producing fusel alcohols and overly assertive phenols and esters. The best investment I made in terms of improving my beer quality was a little chest freezer and a temperature controller.

 

[Komodo]

StarSan is no rinse. Don't rinse after using it! Don't fear the foam, it's yeast food.

Also quit dumping, nothing will kill you. Unless you wait for a month and it still smells like vomit (and I mean ACTUALLY like vomit) it should be fine.

 

[stpug]

StarSan is no rinse. Don't rinse after using it! Don't fear the foam, it's yeast food.

^^I agree with this WHEN MIXED AT PROPER DILUTION. The OP is mixing at ridiculous strong strengths and because of that I think a rinse is necessary.

Correct dilution:
~6 ml in 1 gallon

OP mix:
30-45 ml in 1/4 gallon!!! (that's 20-30x stronger than suggested)

 

[calgary222]

Thanks Folks, really -

Will adjust the cleaning method to include the two steps. Fortunately, I did use the fairly caustic soda ash last night so hopefully that batch will be fine.
Re the ball valves, I do usually clean mine out before use, but will be more systematic in the future...

Regarding the flavors, I have a really hard time describing this - usually sour. The last batch, after a month in the secondary and 2 weeks in the keg, not only smelled sour and tasted the same, the carbonation was bizarre, it was as though I was pouring a fizzy soda drink. And when I went to depressurize the keg, I had to keep a rag over the top to control the froth coming out - it wasn't 'right'

Regarding mash temps, I am pretty good here, lost only .4 degrees on last night's esb from 154.5 start (~22lb and mashed with 8 gallons). I also left about a gallon down in the kettle in case the flavors were developing from break material. Admittedly, while I was trying to dial this in, I have had batches that were 10 degrees high (when I used biab) and this did produce some tannins etc. My gravities have also been pretty close to expected.

I hadn't thought about the water itself, partly b/c the extracts were fine, but my profile is here (welcome any opinions):
CA 60
Mg 15
NA 6
S04 50
CL 8
HC03 150
Ph 7.3 - 80 (I AVG 7.7)

with no choloromine added.

I had thought ales, which I mostly brew, were fine at 68/69 degrees for fermentation, but will maybe try and get a chamber past my wife if this batch fails (in the last year she has put up with an expanded rig and the installation of a 4 tap vintage kegerator - so who knows?).

OK, so I am pretty certain last nights batch is clean from the kettle and I will leave it in the primary untouched for a month and then switch to kegs. Another reason I use carboys is that I brew a fair bit (tossed beer notwithstanding) and switch after 5-6 days normally to free up the fermenter - so I will maybe buy some more buckets.

BTW, my primary bucket does not have an airlock, has a top that kind of clips on and allows gas to evacuate all around the perimeter - do you guys that leave it in the primary have such free flow or are you airlocked? Image is of the style I have:

 

[kombat]

Surf your local Kijiji listings, you'll find tons of people practically giving away carboys. If you look carefully enough, you should find someone selling a couple 6.5 gallon carboys within a few minutes drive of you. Note that the Italian ones are generally considered to be higher quality (and thus, safer) than the thinner-walled ones from Mexico or China.

 

[calgary222]

Thanks Kombat and Komodo -

Yes the starsan [] is high, very high, it is all that I have used historically and never had a problem, I've been lucky I guess - I upped the [] to try and address the contamination. Will now use the proper cleaners. Interestingly, my local supply store kept saying I wld be fine with just starsan, but said if I really had a problem to try the soda ash, which I am now going through my complete system with... will buy the recommended PBW or oxy as suggested for future.

Oh, Komodo, some of this stuff is really bad, what has been drinkable, I have kept and drank. Some of these batches have become quite nasty - when dumping last nights, I had to open a window and door to air out the room...

 

[jaydlaw]

My specific cleaning process is 2-3 tablespoons of starsan and about 1/4 gal of water

that's the amount you need to Sanitize 5 gallons of water!

 

[LLBeanJ]

BTW, my primary bucket does not have an airlock, has a top that kind of clips on and allows gas to evacuate all around the perimeter - do you guys that leave it in the primary have such free flow or are you airlocked? Image is of the style I have:

I don't use an airlock for primary. I have a chest freezer ferm chamber and ferment in buckets. I stuff a SST thermowell down the airlock port and the lid is just sitting on the bucket with gravity holding it down, not snapped. If I need to cold crash, I'll snap the lid and replace the thermowell with an empty airlock and stuff a Starsan soaked paper towel inside so the temp drop doesn't pull anything in. If for some reason I need to move the fermenter outside the ferm chamber, I'll lock the lid and put on an airlock filled with sanitizer.

 

[frettfreak]

Your probelm is your equipment is not getting clean. Lets take a look inside your kettle.... is the bottom brown? this might not be the main issue but will give you weird flavors i would bet, though i dont think the kettle is your issue, at least not your main.

As people have mentioned starsan is a sanitizer not cleaner. I use PBW some others use oxyclean free... either will work, though from my experience PBW just works a little better.

Your ball valves are sitting right next to a burner putting off 200+ degree heat so i doubt your ball valves are the culprit.

Now lets talk about your fermentation equipment and procedures. first and foremost, if you have only been starsan on your carboys, you need to start there with some PBW and follow the instructions (PBW is supposed to be used with warm water, a specific measurement and needs to sit for a while to do its work). as someone mentioned above if your ambient temps are hovering around 70 your beer temp will be 5 to 10 degrees higher and if your arent using a yeast meant for that temp range you will get all kinda of weird flavors. If you sont have access to anything else put an old shirt around your carboys, put a fan blowing on them and keep the shirt wet. I can tell you that if i was starting out all over again with the knowledge i have now, the very first peice of equipment i would have bout would be a chest freezer and temp controller for fermentation. Before i had this beers would come out good and drinkable most the time, but always have something off there ( i live in a desert climate though). Controlling my ferm temps made a 100% difference in my beer.

As far as secondary goes... i wouldnt say skip it all together, but there are only certain time when i will use a secondary (used to secondary EVERYTHING). If i am dry hopping or adding anything post fermentation to flavor the beer, i always secondary(but thats also cause i harvest my yeast and want clean samples for future batches). Also, 5 days in primary is not long enough IMO. at that point, there is likely a TON of yeast still clouding up the beer and doing its thing... let it go 9 or 10, but you will CLEARLY see when the yeast have dropped out of suspension and your beer begins to clear. I have left my beers in primary for 2-3 weeks and they still came out great. But check your FG, cause if the beer is done in 12 days, no need to let it sit longer.

the only other advice i can offer is dont give up too early on a beer. I made a pale a while back that i left the dry hops in way too long and got a real grassy flavor profile coming out of it. was the worst beer i made to date. I pulled the keg and just let it sit for a couple more weeks and it got MUCH MUCH better.....its been in the keg for 3 months now and honestly its not bad now. Lesson is that time kills a LOT of defects.

the sour tast you mention makes me believe its your fermenting vessels that are giving you the issues though. HOWEVER... sour beer is AWESOME!!! I had a buddy in my club that made a barrel aged porter that started to develop a sour flavor (not intentional). he thought it was ruined, but let is go and bottled it anyway. 8 months later, it was an amazing sour porter that was pretty unique!

Good luck. Dumping beer sux!!

 

[calgary222]

Thanks folks - humbling as I used to think I knew what I was doing - but really appreciated.

I'm picking up a pile of 6 gal carboys in the next few days and will adjust my procedures.

Frettfreak, I scrub my kettle until it shines - but as noted, its likely post that stage for the contamination. As a side note, I did have an old fridge for a while and lagered one that was off for 3 months... it was still undrinkable - and when I say that I mean, I forced my way through a pint and was up early the next day and on the can...

Cheers

 

[Melana]

Does your fermentation bucket have a small scratch in it where bacteria could be hiding?

 

[RmikeVT]

I just have to ask, why aren't you following the direction printed on the bottle of star-san and using at the proper concentration? You need 5 mL of star-san for every 1 gallon of water. One TBS is approx 15mL, so you are using 30-45mL of start-san when you should be using 1.25mL.

Star-san is not a cleaner, either. It is a no rinse sanitizer. My recommendation is to clean all your equipment with hot water and oxiclean or PBW mixed in reasonable ratios, rinse with hot water, then sanitize. You don't need to sanitize your mashtun or kettle. Just clean those items, not with star-san.

You do need to CLEAN and SANITIZE everything that comes into contact with the wort after the boil, which is really only your tubing you use for transferring, your fermentation vessel, bungs, airlocks, etc. You definitely need to clean and sanitize all your racking equipment and secondary equipment when you move your beer into secondary or prepare for bottling/kegging.

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk but you need to read and follow directions on your chemicals and review best practices for cleaning and sanitizing.

 

[IslandLizard]

+1 on all the advice here. You're on your way to fixing your infections. A few extra notes.

PBW contains 30% sodium metasilicate, a wonderful degreaser and detergent, and 70% "Oxiclean Free," making for a potent all-purpose brewing equipment cleaner. You can compound this yourself for less than 1/3 of the 8# retail price. Soda ash is washing soda (Na2CO3), which is left over after Oxiclean released its Oxygen (O2).

Immaculate cleaning and sanitizing of your "cold side equipment," anything that touches your wort after the boil, is mandatory. This includes fermentation vessels, racking canes, hoses, lids, funnels, valves, spigots, etc. Everything! Brushing is more effective in cleaning residue off than soaking alone. You simply cannot sanitize anything that isn't clean in the first place. After cleaning, rinse well, followed by a 30 second (or longer) submersion in or contact with a standard Starsan solution to sanitize right before use. As long as it's wet it remains sanitized.

After using PBW, soda ash, etc. give it a good rinse before applying Starsan, since it has little buffering capacity and any carryover of alkaline cleaners will raise the pH above 3.5, rendering it ineffective.

 

[Melana]

Thanks folks - humbling as I used to think I knew what I was doing - but really appreciated.

I'm picking up a pile of 6 gal carboys in the next few days and will adjust my procedures.

Frettfreak, I scrub my kettle until it shines - but as noted, its likely post that stage for the contamination. As a side note, I did have an old fridge for a while and lagered one that was off for 3 months... it was still undrinkable - and when I say that I mean, I forced my way through a pint and was up early the next day and on the can...

Cheers

Do you scrub all of your equipment? Sometimes scrubbing can add bacteria... What are you scrubbing your cold side equipment with? Could it be bacteria from the sponge/scrubbie thing?

 

[calgary222]

RmikeVT - appreciate the advice, again, for some 20 years, all I have ever used was starsan with extract and been fine. I upped the [] when I started having problems working on the premise that higher [] would do a better job of killing residual bugs. Unfortunately, I either wasn't clear or didn't get the right advice when I went to my brew supply store. I now feel set straight and will next continue to clean the whole system with soda ash in appropriate [] because I have it and in future use the pbw/starsan combo.

Melana, re the scrubber, I use a new one every time - but a good tip, thanks

 

[Gameface]

I don't think this is a sanitation issue. It might be, but I would lean more towards water chemistry and/or ferm temps.

IMHO, 69 ambient is too high for most ale yeast strains. If that's the temp you've got research your yeast strain carefully and pick one that others have had success with at those temps. Don't go by the manufacturers temp range, they aren't saying it will ferment clean at those temps.

Do you use campden? You say no chloramines, but are you treating your water for chlorine?

Give us a recipe example and your detailed mash process. Since this started with AG I'd look at AG specifics and not general sanitation practices.

As far as your dumping, tell us how you decide if a beer gets dumped. I've had many beers that I was disappointed in early become very solid beers after a little time. Are these dumpers just disappointing or are they making you gag?

 

[ChelisHubby]

you don't need a Pile of carboys just 1 or 2 and see if it does the trick. In general people can change anything that is plastic and that will fix it. But since you have been dealing with this for quite a while I will assume that is done. I had a similar problem and went back to extract and then realized what my issues probably were. Damned hoses. Don't give up you will find the problem.

 

[CorporateHippie]

Based off of your water profile....if you don't do anything to it at all....(blend with RO/ add salts) then your beer will taste like crap. When anyone in my club says they "are switching to all grain" I encourage them but only after a good tongue lashing on the importance of water chemistry

 

[calgary222]

Thanks guys,
Gameface, CorporateHippie, I agree, I could well have water issues, among so many other issues... My last 'successful' batch was the Kona Big wave copy that is in the recipe archive - brewed it for a friend and it was OK, but not as close to the original as claimed - so I know I have other issues like water and repeatability. However, it was quite drinkable and improved considerably between the 2nd and 4th month. I've had others that were more off, but still drinkable - and as noted, I've given some 6 months and they were still so bad they had to be dumped from a safety perspective.

Anyway, Gameface, for this last batch, I made 10 gallons of the Common Room ESB: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=83878

I started with 15 gallons @162 and mashed in with 9 gallons. The recipe called for warmer HLT temp, but it was pretty warm out and my grain temp was room temperature. As it was, it took 5 minutes of stirring to drop the temp from 159 to 154.5 - in hindsight I could have probably mashed in at 158 and hit 154 pretty solidly
Temperature dropped during the 60 min mash to 154.1. Vorlof twice and clear. Then dump to boil kettle.
Raised HLT to 160 and batch sparged - I do this until its running pretty clear and this time that was after about 4 gallons.
I started the boil kettle up and was about 12 minutes to full boil. I used new voil (left over from when I did biab) and followed hop schedule at 60, 20 and flameout. I also added 2 tablets of Whirlflock for the first time (in the past used Irish moss) at 15 minutes.
Also at 15 min left I put in my wort chiller (the kettle returned to a boil in ~3 minutes). I didn't time the cooling this time, but it was around 13-15 minutes (its a 50' double helix 1/2" chiller)
In my search for what was the problem, I had heard that extra break material can cause a cauliflower flavor in the beer; I've also heard it has no effect. To be extra safe this time I left a gallon plus in the BK. I do need to put some kind of filtration in my BK - right now I know I am pulling a fair bit though.
When the temperature hit 69, I opened the spigot and added one packet of dry yeast (Safale s-04) at about 50% full and the remainder when I closed the spigot. I had about 8.5 - 9 gallons in the bucket (my kettles are also fairly wide so I get rapid boil off). I can't recall my exact gravity, but remember it being close to target.

As of last night I had decent activity and expect tonight to have strong activity. Just as a side note, I brewed a batch with one of the aggressive Rogue Brewery yeasts had almost instant activity and still lost the batch - so, although I know I can use starters etc. to improve here, I think my problem was elsewhere.

Globally though, my beers have been OK or terrible - its the terrible I was trying to fix in this thread before trying to go from OK to great. With that in mind though, CorporateHippie, once I get my contamination under control, I will look at water. I hadn't worried about it too much before b/c the local brewery club swears we have some of the best tap water in Canada for brewing.

Again, thanks all,

 

[Braufessor]

I DON'T think it is your water.... at least not based on you saying your beer is "sour" and the carbonation is "weird and fizzy"...... those are not water problems - those are infection problems. Water problems present with things like: Harsh, plastic, astringent, dry, etc. They don't present with sour or carbonation issues.

The one thing that is different about all grain vs. extract is the amount of grain dust that might be getting in your area. Grain is covered in lactobacillus and lacto infections, as a result of grain dust getting into your equipment is a real possibility. If your cleaning practices were a bit suspect, you could have gotten an infection started and it is holding on in your plastic (Tubing, fermenters, spigots, etc.).

You have gotten tons of great advice on cleaning/sanitizing, so I won't rehash that. But, I do think it seems like infection as far as your description. And, like I said - grain dust could be a new culprit compared to using extract in the past.

I had a string of infections many years ago due to not being particularly vigilant. I ended up simply replacing all my plastic and revisiting all my cleaning/sanitizing..... no problems in 200-300 batches since then.

 

[jaydlaw]

Too much starsan!

 

[ricshayne]

Also quit dumping, nothing will kill you.

i disagree with this. Ive personally dumped many batches for simply not being up to par with the high standard i set. Why take up space, bottles etc.. for half assed beer. dumping will force you to brew again and brew better.

But as others have said this is most likely an issue with you using starsan to clean with. you really need to clean everything with oxy free or pbw every time.

 

[joshesmusica]

i agree with braufessor, this is most certainly not a water issue. you don't get infected beers from not so great water.

also, i agree with the grains carrying a lot of bacteria. are you fermenting with your non-airlock fermenter in the same area that you store your grains? i think switching to your carboys and having airlocks on them will be a huge start, even if your cleaning practices haven't been that great. also as stated, replace any plastic hoses, they're cheap, and if the infected beer has come into contact with those, it'll likely just cause further contamination.

good luck!

 

[BrotherBock]

My specific cleaning process is 2-3 tablespoons of starsan and about 1/4 gal of water in what ever vessel I am cleaning, I then make sure I have thorough coverage with this concentrate and rinse 3 times. I clean the carboys in the same manner, although for the last several batches I have pulled the spears and washed with concentrated starsan and then rinsed. I starsan when finished and starsan when I start with a vessel.

Not related to why you'd dump a batch but you could simplify your cleaning. Your process seems unnecessarily complicated to me. Just clean, rinse and sanitize with normal starsan dilution (1oz/5gal). No need to make some super concentrate. You're just wasting starsan.

My problems usually arise during secondary fermentation, where I can sometimes see a dry film on 10-15% of the surface of the carboy.

Film doesn't necessarily mean anything. I get a film a lot. But I'd skip secondary entirely unless you can think of why is absolutely needed. The more transferring you do the higher risk you take for oxygen, off-flavors or infection.

Otherwise your process (as far as you've outlined) sounds fine to me. If its just off flavors it may be related to yeast health or water profile. Using starters? Pitching too low? Too hot? Chlorinated water?

If it's infections you should replace all plastic/vinyl. Especially if there are scratches. Bugs can hide. Then deep clean everything else.

 

[3toes]

BTW, my primary bucket does not have an airlock, has a top that kind of clips on and allows gas to evacuate all around the perimeter - do you guys that leave it in the primary have such free flow or are you airlocked? Image is of the style I have:

Is it a food-grade plastic bucket?

 

[kh54s10]

As noted I would work on cleaning procedure.
Then start doing small batches while searching for your problem.
Your fermentation temperatures are too high which will give some off flavors. But, I think you are also experiencing infections or something else.
Try store bought spring water.

Starsan has already been discussed......

Clean well, then sanitize.

Replace most if not all your plastic brewing items that come into contact with the wort after the boil. Plastic can harbor microbes especially if scratched.

 

[sudbuddy]

Star san comes with a convenient measuring device right on the bottle, use that at the recommended dilution and DO NOT RINSE! Also, get some PBW for cleanup, star san is just to sanitize. If your beer is tasting "green" (young, unfinished, usually has some acetaldehyde) it is because you are only leaving it in primary for 5 days. Never move your beer unless you have hit your projected final gravity and that has remained stable for 3 days.

From your description it sounds like a typical lactobacillus infection. This can often be caused by improper sanitation (see above) and old tubing. How are you racking your beer? Racking cane, autosiphon, spigot? God forbid, a funnel and a screen? Whatever the method, make sure you sanitize your racking equipment really well. Also, just to be safe, replace all of your tubing. It is a great place for bugs to hide and it is a lot cheaper than 5 gallons of beer.

Random question, but is it very dusty in your brewing/fermentation environment? Wort spoilage bacteria loves to hide out in or as dust, and it can be pretty hard to spot when it gets into your wort when you rack. Try just leaving your beer in primary for 3 weeks and then kegging and see if that helps. Between that and new tubing you might be in pretty good shape, but as other commenters noted you should probably do a deep clean of all of your valves too. Good luck!

 

[joshesmusica]

you people aren't reading:

Some of these batches have become quite nasty - when dumping last nights, I had to open a window and door to air out the room...

sour... so nasty one needs to air out the room... this doesn't wreak of anything other than infection.

 

[sudbuddy]

BTW, my primary bucket does not have an airlock, has a top that kind of clips on and allows gas to evacuate all around the perimeter - do you guys that leave it in the primary have such free flow or are you airlocked? Image is of the style I have:

That is a wine fermenter. Fermenting wine in one of those is a whole different ball game. You need a beer fermenter, and unfortunately that means you need to split your 10 gallon batch unless you want to spend big bucks. The good news is that it is pretty easy to try 2 yeast strains per batch this way. That 12 gallon bucket will be great for storing bulk grain, but you do not want to ferment beer in it.

 

[MerlinWerks]

As mentioned, I would scale back your batch size until you have it figured out.

And if you have never disassembled your ball valves it would probably be worth the time. I know I was surprised at what was in there after a dozen batches or so, fortunately it was not nearly as bad as THIS...