Help! Rye Porter

[ddv]

This is my first post on homebrewtalk. I've been brewing a while but recently got into all grain and man has it made me want to experiment. Below is my first attempt at creating a recipe from scratch and I could use some feedback.

5 Gal Batch
Est OG - 1.068
Est FG - 1.020
IBU - 44.5
SRM - 28.9

Grains:
7 Lbs Pale (2 row)
4 lbs Flaked Rye
1 lb crystal 60L
1 Lb Chocolate Malt
Amylase Enzyme (just to be sure the rye mashes well)

Hops:
.75 oz Nugget - 60 min
1 oz East Kent Goldings - 15 min
1 oz US Fuggle - 5 min

Yeast:
White Labs English Ale WLP002

A couple of my questions:
Too much chocolate malt? To much hop? With that much rye should I be letting it take center stage and have less competing flavors? I'm all for layers of complexity but don't want it to pull you in too many directions.
Should I use a different yeast for a drier finish?

Any comments would be helpful!

 

[motorneuron]

There's nothing wrong with a lot of rye. But I wouldn't use that much FLAKED rye. Flaked grain is not malted, which means it has no enzymes. It contributes more proteins to the beer, so a little is used for head retention or body. But there usually isn't a reason to go to more than about 10% flaked grain. (I can only think of one style that uses a large percentage of unmalted grain; that's the traditional recipe for Belgian witbier.)

Anyway, long story short, you should probably try to use rye MALT instead. It will still give you that spicy, grassy edge. And leave out the amylase. Rye, however, is gummy in any form. You probably want a short protein rest (which helps prevent stuck sparges), and you may also want to mix in some rice hulls in your mash to aid sparging.

I don't think the hop level is necessarily a problem, though you should consider the goals of this beer. Porter is typically a malt-forward style rather than a hop-forward one. If you want to emphasize the smooth, dark flavors typical in porter, adding a lot of hops may distract from that. If you want something more like a hoppy American brown, there's nothing wrong with this hop schedule.

Along those lines, as for the grain bill itself, you probably need a bit more of the really dark grains--roasted barley and/or black patent. This recipe (which I brewed and loved), for example, contains 1 lb of chocolate, 1 lb of C40, but also 4 oz of black patent and 1 oz of roasted barley: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f126/robust-porter-531-brew-haus-1st-place-2009-hbt-bjcp-comp-141088/ That produces a smooth, somewhat but not overpoweringly roasted porter.

 

[ddv]

Thanks for the advice. Helped me to think about what I really want out of the beer. I think maybe I want to go for more of a brown ale than a porter. Not too roasty, not too hoppy. Something fairly easy drinking focusing on the rye aspect of the brew.

what do you think of these revisions?

5 Gal Batch
Est OG - 1.061
Est FG - 1.018
IBU - 39.6
SRM - 24.6

Grains:
7 Lbs Pale (2 row) 60%
3 lbs Flaked Rye 25%
1 lb crystal 60L 8.3%
.75 Lb Chocolate Malt 6.3%
Amylase Enzyme (just to be sure the rye mashes well)
hand full of rice hulls


Hops:
.75 oz Nugget - 60 min
.5 oz East Kent Goldings - 15 min


Yeast:
White Labs English Ale WLP002

I know I'm still using all flaked rye but i did cut the percentage a bit. I had it left over from a batch of Kentucky Common and was hoping to avoid an hour trip to the homebrew store in the freezing cold with a toddler. HOWEVER, I'd rather make a trip than have 5 gallons of undrinkable beer or something that's a pain in the rear to sparge. (I batch sparge in a 10 gal round cooler if that makes a difference.)

Also, should the chocolate and caramel malts be enough for a brown or should I still think about tossing in something roastier?

thoughts?

 

[motorneuron]

Haha, well I get the no-trip incentive.

I haven't done the calculations, but I suspect that with the 7:3 2-row to flaked rye ratio, you will have just enough enzymes to mash the flaked rye (they crystal doesn't need to mash anyway, and the chocolate doesn't really need to), especially if you do a long enough sach rest. But I guess the extra amylase still can't hurt.

The rye could be a pain. You can minimize the pain by doing a protein rest--I think, but can't remember for sure, that the relevant rye protein rest is at 122-124F. You can also minimize the pain by making sure that you keep your grain bed above 160F during sparging. That will prevent the rye from turning gelatinous (sticky). The rice hulls are a good idea.

Brown is a bit loose. I still would recommend using some mid-kiln character malts--Munich, Victory, aromatic, for example. I like the depth of flavor that adds. But I think what you have here would make a good beer.

Good luck!